Overkill

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petersonra said:
The customer can have whatever extras he is willing to pay for.
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I think that the problem is that most of the time they don't have a clue what they're paying for. A designer comes up with nonsense like Power Notes 2 and someone is paying for something that will not have any impact on the quality of the build. There is no reason to have a pull box after two 90° bends other than to waste money.
 
Would it be dumb and risky to bid it otherwise ...say the normal requirement of 4 90's. I'd say yes as you could be held to what they wrote on the drawings. Wonder if someone who gets the job would try to get approved drawings showing boxes every 4 90's. But then they would ask for a credit.
 
After the contract is awarded VE can be addressed but I have seen contractors busted when not following the specs.
One particular project the bid documents (specs) called for steel compression EMT fittings, the contractor that won the project got a few months into the project using setscrew and had to change all they had installed
 
roger said:
After the contract is awarded VE can be addressed but I have seen contractors busted when not following the specs.
One particular project the bid documents (specs) called for steel compression EMT fittings, the contractor that won the project got a few months into the project using setscrew and had to change all they had installed
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That happens quite a bit. Some jobs no one checks and you get away with it other jobs you rip it our and start over. We had a job where they spec'd all #10 solid. They decided to pull #10 stranded for all of the lighting and after 4 floors that got caught and had to rip it all out.
 
infinity said:
That happens quite a bit. Some jobs no one checks and you get away with it other jobs you rip it our and start over. We had a job where they spec'd all #10 solid. They decided to pull #10 stranded for all of the lighting and after 4 floors that got caught and had to rip it all out.
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Why on earth would someone spec this? Any idea what the reasoning was?
 
electrofelon said:
Why on earth would someone spec this? Any idea what the reasoning was?
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If I remember correctly it had something to do with a spec from Lutron that they required only solid conductors up to #10. We still see spec's to this day which state only solid conductors up to and including #10.
 
roger said:
After the contract is awarded VE can be addressed but I have seen contractors busted when not following the specs.
One particular project the bid documents (specs) called for steel compression EMT fittings, the contractor that won the project got a few months into the project using setscrew and had to change all they had installed
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Wow. Sure they hd to submit them for approval. Someone didn't follow/read the spec. Maybe both the PM and engineer.
 
infinity said:
I think that the problem is that most of the time they don't have a clue what they're paying for.
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How is that a problem?

I have said this before. The contract can specify anything. It can specify the conduit has to be painted pink. If you don't want to do something in the spec, call it out in your proposal as something you can remove from your scope for whatever the deletion is worth to you.

You have all kinds of crazy stuff electricians do that serve no real purpose like using rigid over EMT, copper over aluminum, adding ground wires where metallic raceways already exist, etc. none of these things adds value. Just cost
 
infinity said:
If I remember correctly it had something to do with a spec from Lutron that they required only solid conductors up to #10. We still see spec's to this day which state only solid conductors up to and including #10.
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I see that all the time. Is there an issue using stranded for #10 and smaller? Why would you want to use stranded over solid for these sizes? Easier to work with?
 
petersonra said:
How is that a problem?

You have all kinds of crazy stuff electricians do that serve no real purpose like using rigid over EMT, copper over aluminum, adding ground wires where metallic raceways already exist, etc. none of these things adds value. Just cost
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It obviously a problem for the person paying for it when it adds zero extra value to the installation.
 
Alwayslearningelec said:
I see that all the time. Is there an issue using stranded for #10 and smaller? Why would you want to use stranded over solid for these sizes? Easier to work with?
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Yes stranded, especially #10 which is typically used for homeruns, is far easier to work with. IMO #10 solid should be banned in raceways.
 
infinity said:
Yes stranded, especially #10 which is typically used for homeruns, is far easier to work with. IMO #10 solid should be banned in raceways.
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Besides the Lutron thing have you heard why the engineers are staying with specifiying solid conductors for #10 and smaller? Termination reliability?
 
petersonra said:
The code should not be making design choices.
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Then why not permit #8 or #6 solid in raceways? The issue is that solid conductors are more likely to be damaged when installed in a raceway. Having installed miles of both #10 solid and #10 stranded I'll keep with my opinion regarding #10 solid.
 
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