Override switch for time clock

[gojkoprs]

Hello everyone. I have bunch of lights in the store controlled by the time clock and contactor. Clock Turns them on in the morning and shuts them off in the evening. I need to connect an override switch, in case someone has to work early or during the night when the lights are off. So to be clear, only to turn the lights on in case they need them. Also, does it matter if the time clock is digital? I don’t know if that makes any difference. It’s just a regular Tork that you can get at Home Depot. Will this way of wiring work? Blue is the neutral.

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https://imgur.com/CAq65XJ

 

[infinity]

If the SPST switch is closed how will the time clock turn off the lights? Typically for this type of setup we use a momentary time clock, latching relay and momentary override switches.

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[LarryFine]

Agreed. I suggest a spring-wound or electronic count-down timer instead, so it will automatically revert to automatic operation. They come in models up to 12 hours to suit the maximum time needed.

 

[Little Bill]

Don't most timers have an override switch on them. I know Intermatic does and pretty sure Tork does too. It will turn back off when the time comes that is set, or you can switch it back.

 

[Chamuit]

Parallel a switch to the timer.

 

[infinity]

Parallel a switch to the timer.

How would that work? If you turn the switch to the ON position the timer will not shut the lights off.

 

[EeeeVeee]

How would that work? If you turn the switch to the ON position the timer will not shut the lights off.

Yes, so whoever came in during the odd time and turned the switch on would have to turn it back off. If they forget then someone else would have to do it later.

 

[EeeeVeee]

Hello everyone. I have bunch of lights in the store controlled by the time clock and contactor. Clock Turns them on in the morning and shuts them off in the evening. I need to connect an override switch, in case someone has to work early or during the night when the lights are off. So to be clear, only to turn the lights on in case they need them. Also, does it matter if the time clock is digital? I don’t know if that makes any difference. It’s just a regular Tork that you can get at Home Depot. Will this way of wiring work? Blue is the neutral.

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https://imgur.com/CAq65XJ

I had a question many years ago when doing the same thing with a photocell. My question was whether it would be harmful to the photocell, or in your case the timer, to feed 120 V into the load side of the photocell like your photo shows.

What I did instead was use a three-way switch before the photocell. When the switch gets flipped one way the power goes through the photocell like normal. When flipping the switch the other way the power is diverted away from the photocell and directly to the lights, or in your case the contactor. I labeled each position of the switch, one way was “photocell“ and the other way was “bypass”. I’ve done it that way dozens of times since.

 

[infinity]

Yes, so whoever came in during the odd time and turned the switch on would have to turn it back off. If they forget then someone else would have to do it later.

That kind of defeats the purpose of automatic lighting controls.

 

[EeeeVeee]

That kind of defeats the purpose of automatic lighting controls.

Yes, which is the entire point of installing a bypass. When someone wants the lights on they turn them on, then when they are done they turn them back off.

 

[infinity]

Yes, which is the entire point of installing a bypass. When someone wants the lights on they turn them on, then when they are done they turn them back off.

Automatic controls are supposed to turn the lights off at the designated time without any human interaction. If people turned them off when they left there would be no reason to have automatic control in the first place. The problem here with the OP is that the system is not designed for a properly controlled override system.

 

[EeeeVeee]

Automatic controls are supposed to turn the lights off at the designated time without any human interaction. If people turned them off when they left there would be no reason to have automatic control in the first place. The problem here with the OP is that the system is not designed for a properly controlled override system.

What you just said about people turning them off when they leave causing no reason to have automatic control in the first place, you could say the same exact thing for people turning them on when they come in in the OP’s scenario.

In this scenario he’s describing it’s an oddball situation in which they’re turning it on, which means they will also turn it off. That is what he’s asking to do.

 

[infinity]

In this scenario he’s describing it’s an oddball situation in which they’re turning it on, which means they will also turn it off. That is what he’s asking to do.

That's an assumption on your part. The lights go out when they're working late and they're in the dark so they turn them on. Doesn't mean they'll turn them off when they leave. There might even be something in the energy code that won't allow the manual switch to permanently override the automatic control.

 

[winnie]

It is much easier to forget to turn lights off then to forget to turn them on. If you need light that tells you to turn the light on. If the lights are on when you don't need them, then it's easy to just walk away.

Back to the OP, you need to determine if the existing time clock can tolerate having power applied to its output terminal when it is supposed to be off. If the internals close a relay or mechanical switch, and don't have any other connection to the output terminal, then there is no problem.

But without some details on the time clock you can't guarantee this will work. Perhaps the unit somehow depends on the open circuit voltage when in the off state.

If the time clock is essentially a single pole switch powering the contactor, then a parallel SP switch is a fine override. I second the suggestion of making this override some sort of countdown timer.

Jon

 

[hillbilly1]

If the customer has an alarm system, a relay with a dry contact can be provided by the alarm vendor. Remove the time clock from the circuit and use the contact from the security panel to control the lights. Lights will automatically come on when the building is occupied.

 

[James L]

What you just said about people turning them off when they leave causing no reason to have automatic control in the first place, you could say the same exact thing for people turning them on when they come in in the OP’s scenario.

In this scenario he’s describing it’s an oddball situation in which they’re turning it on, which means they will also turn it off. That is what he’s asking to do.

I agree.
The automatic controls are for people who can't be trusted to make sure the all get turned off.

But someone who's trusted to come in during off times should have the good sense to turn the lights on and back off in those odd situatons.

I'd install a key switch so the untrusted ones couldn't have ready access to the override switch

 

[zooby]

turn them back off or No Cookie!

 

[Chamuit]

How would that work? If you turn the switch to the ON position the timer will not shut the lights off.

If you left the switch on, the time clock switching would still work but with no ON/OFF on the lights. Could always put a timer in the switch location.

 

[ActionDave]

....Could always put a timer in the switch location...

Used to do that a lot with a simple spring wound timer

 

[Another C10]

How would that work? If you turn the switch to the ON position the timer will not shut the lights off.

May of been mentioned, I'd use a spring wound timer switch .. say 6-12 hours that way when barney forgets the override switch it will
magically turn off .. until the timer re-energizes the system once again.