Oversized branch curcuit conductors
- Thread starter duhhuh
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luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
No
No
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
Well, once you alter the conductor it is no longer recognized or listed, so 110.3 could be used as well as the last sentence of 110.10.
In reality we might know that we trimmed a #1 just enough to fit in a lug of a 20 amp breaker and the remaining strands are equivalent to a #8, but technically speaking, this conductor has been damaged.
Roger
[ June 10, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
Well, once you alter the conductor it is no longer recognized or listed, so 110.3 could be used as well as the last sentence of 110.10.
In reality we might know that we trimmed a #1 just enough to fit in a lug of a 20 amp breaker and the remaining strands are equivalent to a #8, but technically speaking, this conductor has been damaged.
Roger
[ June 10, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
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- Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
It violates 110.3 for both the conductor and the terminal.
It has not been a tested combination; therefore it is an unlisted combination.
It also violates 110.14(A)&(C) since the conductor is damaged and it's temperature rating is indeterminate.
[ June 10, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: rbalex ]
It violates 110.3 for both the conductor and the terminal.
It has not been a tested combination; therefore it is an unlisted combination.
It also violates 110.14(A)&(C) since the conductor is damaged and it's temperature rating is indeterminate.
[ June 10, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: rbalex ]
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
I have seen this done many times over the years. Even did a few myself. some were intensional some were not. In some cases I have even added some hair to make an over size lug fit a smaller size better. I have never seen it cause a problem. I have however seen many problems where the insulation was not "penciled" off properly. It causes the wire to crack or break where the knife "ringed" it when cutting the insulation. But I agree that the code only allows listed uses. Seems like I have used some crimp lugs/splices made for this. Check with Burndy (FCI Connect) or T&B. Anyway the wire terminating/splicing crimping procedures I approved don't allow removing strands or drilling out the lugs.
I have seen this done many times over the years. Even did a few myself. some were intensional some were not. In some cases I have even added some hair to make an over size lug fit a smaller size better. I have never seen it cause a problem. I have however seen many problems where the insulation was not "penciled" off properly. It causes the wire to crack or break where the knife "ringed" it when cutting the insulation. But I agree that the code only allows listed uses. Seems like I have used some crimp lugs/splices made for this. Check with Burndy (FCI Connect) or T&B. Anyway the wire terminating/splicing crimping procedures I approved don't allow removing strands or drilling out the lugs.
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
That is correct Vango. I have even seen hair cuts in products from the manufacturer. If designed and tested that way it is good to go. Some OEMs list their crimp lugs for multiwire or circular mil range and it is okay to add hair to make a proper crimp or fit. I have never seen a wire manufactuer say in writing its okay to trim his 250 kcm to get 2/0. There are reducing or enlarging products available that have been designed and tested for that. As roger stated a spliced pigtail is okay provided the splice lug is listed for one size on one end and a different on the other or a multiwire parallel splice listed for that circular mil range. As i said i havent seen a problem caused by a haircut in 30+ years and it even looks better than a spliced or bolted pigtail. But if something did happen getting OSHA or the jury to believe it didnt contribute is a whole different ball game. The folks that built the dam that broke and killed a bunch of folks in Johnston were not guilty, but they violated accepted construction and maintenance methods as FERC now requires. You cant dig a post hole on a dam without government approval.
That is correct Vango. I have even seen hair cuts in products from the manufacturer. If designed and tested that way it is good to go. Some OEMs list their crimp lugs for multiwire or circular mil range and it is okay to add hair to make a proper crimp or fit. I have never seen a wire manufactuer say in writing its okay to trim his 250 kcm to get 2/0. There are reducing or enlarging products available that have been designed and tested for that. As roger stated a spliced pigtail is okay provided the splice lug is listed for one size on one end and a different on the other or a multiwire parallel splice listed for that circular mil range. As i said i havent seen a problem caused by a haircut in 30+ years and it even looks better than a spliced or bolted pigtail. But if something did happen getting OSHA or the jury to believe it didnt contribute is a whole different ball game. The folks that built the dam that broke and killed a bunch of folks in Johnston were not guilty, but they violated accepted construction and maintenance methods as FERC now requires. You cant dig a post hole on a dam without government approval.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
I think it is absolutely incorrect to suggest adding or removing strands from a conductor for the purposes of fitting a termination.
There is no way you or the AHJ can know what the current-carrying capacity is of each strand removed or added. There are products on the market for this purpose or simple splicing is the proper practice.
I think it is absolutely incorrect to suggest adding or removing strands from a conductor for the purposes of fitting a termination.
There is no way you or the AHJ can know what the current-carrying capacity is of each strand removed or added. There are products on the market for this purpose or simple splicing is the proper practice.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
You are inviteing a lawsuit if anything goes wrong.Why not just do it the right way ?
In todays age of law suits we must cover our *** .We can not knowingly allow code violations.A few days ago on a school project i noticed one of our temp gfci not tripping.Solution ,turn it off NOW till we get it fixed.To do any thing knowingly violating safety or code is putting us at that fair grounds that killed a little kid.I want no part of anything unsafe
You are inviteing a lawsuit if anything goes wrong.Why not just do it the right way ?
In todays age of law suits we must cover our *** .We can not knowingly allow code violations.A few days ago on a school project i noticed one of our temp gfci not tripping.Solution ,turn it off NOW till we get it fixed.To do any thing knowingly violating safety or code is putting us at that fair grounds that killed a little kid.I want no part of anything unsafe
caosesvida
Senior Member
Re: Oversized branch curcuit conductors
Cutting conductors down to size, is altering it. It would seem that if you do that you would void the ul listing. crimping or pigtail makes sense. Cutting does not. It also leads other people to belive that its ok to do that in all circumstances even though you may know that what you did can handle the load. IT sets a bad example.
Cutting conductors down to size, is altering it. It would seem that if you do that you would void the ul listing. crimping or pigtail makes sense. Cutting does not. It also leads other people to belive that its ok to do that in all circumstances even though you may know that what you did can handle the load. IT sets a bad example.
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