Paddle fan Support

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bluecollar84

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Can I use a regular ceiling box if I independently Support the ceiling paddle fan bracket to the ceiling joist ? Is this legal ?


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The way that I read NEC2014 422.18, you are allowed to use the building structure to support the fan. Regardless if the junction box is fan rated or not.
 
edward said:
The way that I read NEC2014 422.18, you are allowed to use the building structure to support the fan. Regardless if the junction box is fan rated or not.
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Correct.

314.27(C) basically says the same thing but not as straight forward.

Roger
 
roger said:
See 422.18

Roger
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That section permits independent support.

Then at some point they changed 314.27(C) to state in some situations if there is a separately switched conductor in a place where a fan could be installed you must provide a fan rated box - which I think is a conflict.
 
kwired said:
That section permits independent support.

Then at some point they changed 314.27(C) to state in some situations if there is a separately switched conductor in a place where a fan could be installed you must provide a fan rated box - which I think is a conflict.
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Read 314.27(C) again and post the wording you think is in conflict.


I know that the last paragraph addresses this but it seems as this would be if a fan could be installed later but not at time of rough in and would not necessarily be mandatory across the board.

Roger
 
roger said:
Read 314.27(C) again and post the wording you think is in conflict.


I know that the last paragraph addresses this but it seems as this would be if a fan could be installed later but not at time of rough in and would not necessarily be mandatory across the board.

Roger
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I agree.
 
roger said:
Read 314.27(C) again and post the wording you think is in conflict.


I know that the last paragraph addresses this but it seems as this would be if a fan could be installed later but not at time of rough in and would not necessarily be mandatory across the board.

Roger
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It is requiring a box rated to support a fan even if no fan is to be installed - in certain situations. Yet the other section allows a fan to be supported independently from the box.

Have put in even longer screws when 1-1/2 deep box is mounted on blocking to support a fan.

I have placed shallow boxes (not fan rated) right on framing in the past, if a fan is installed just put some longer screws right into framing member to support the fan. But last paragraph of 314.27(C) is saying this isn't allowed anymore - at least in dwellings.

This is nothing more then a requirement with the intent to protect DIY's from themselves when they come back later and install a fan.
Good design decision might still be to install a fan box - but should not be a requirement.
 
kwired said:
It is requiring a box rated to support a fan even if no fan is to be installed - in certain situations. Yet the other section allows a fan to be supported independently from the box.

Have put in even longer screws when 1-1/2 deep box is mounted on blocking to support a fan.

I have placed shallow boxes (not fan rated) right on framing in the past, if a fan is installed just put some longer screws right into framing member to support the fan. But last paragraph of 314.27(C) is saying this isn't allowed anymore - at least in dwellings.

This is nothing more then a requirement with the intent to protect DIY's from themselves when they come back later and install a fan.
Good design decision might still be to install a fan box - but should not be a requirement.
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In the future, you can use a box from this page if you need to be right on the stud with a fan-rated box. Also very sturdy and have higher box fill than standard pancake boxes.

As to your second sentence, doesnt that cover fans with seismic safety-wire type secondary mounting means?
 
JFletcher said:
In the future, you can use a box from this page if you need to be right on the stud with a fan-rated box. Also very sturdy and have higher box fill than standard pancake boxes.
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Used those or some like them before.

JFletcher said:
As to your second sentence, doesnt that cover fans with seismic safety-wire type secondary mounting means?
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This?
Have put in even longer screws when 1-1/2 deep box is mounted on blocking to support a fan.
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All I meant by that is if existing outlet box is 1-1/2 deep but has wood block behind it I have used a couple 4 inch screws right into the block to support a fan before.
 
I got into a discussion with an inspector locally about this. He made the ec put a fan rated box. Not required but I think it may be a good idea. I actually wrote a proposal to change the wording to make it mandatory to install a fan box. Don't hate me.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I got into a discussion with an inspector locally about this. He made the ec put a fan rated box. Not required but I think it may be a good idea. I actually wrote a proposal to change the wording to make it mandatory to install a fan box. Don't hate me.
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We used to install fan boxes and 3 wire in all habitable rooms for future installs if regular lights were speced.
 
jumper said:
We used to install fan boxes and 3 wire in all habitable rooms for future installs if regular lights were speced.
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We did also but we just install a 2x4 or 2x6 behind a standard octagon and screwed the fan bracket to the wood. Problem is a home owner changes our the fan and he may not do that.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
We did also but we just install a 2x4 or 2x6 behind a standard octagon and screwed the fan bracket to the wood. Problem is a home owner changes our the fan and he may not do that.
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They may not use fan box correctly either.

Raco had (don't know if they still do) boxes with both 8-32 and 10-32 mounting screw options. 10-32 screws must be used with fans, but sometimes are too big for fixture brackets. HO changes light to a fan where the 8-32 was previously used and there is a good chance they don't know they are supposed to use the 10-32 option.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I got into a discussion with an inspector locally about this. He made the ec put a fan rated box. Not required but I think it may be a good idea. I actually wrote a proposal to change the wording to make it mandatory to install a fan box. Don't hate me.
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Now we know who to cuss at when this situation arises and we don't have a fan box handy or just plain don't want to use one for some reason.
 
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