Paid to Work hot?? When will they learn!

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brother

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"I have learned, in whatsoever STATE I am, therewi
Well, this hot work topic is up again in my area. I had a guy ask me if I was at least 500 more would I work hot some circuits that they consider less risk. Such as 120/208 volt 20 amp to 30amp breaker installs for branch circuits.
I told him no, I still see no reason to do some things hot when it can be turned off, and I also do not believe that OSHA provides exceptions when the 'Money' is right for someone.

Even though NFPA 70e is a 'Standard' and not a "Code' , we do try to follow it to some degree. Even installing a 20 amp breaker in an 'energized' panel for a duplex receptacle is not acceptacle to me even though I have done this in the past I have change my practices after learning about arc flash etc..

What is your opinion on this (circuits you think are less risk)?? working hot for more money, what would be your price?? Has anyone ever asked you to do this for more money??
 
Did you invite your friend here? Did you state that the older you got the less you inclined too?

I beleive after reading here to much that most would not state as much nor acknowledge anything about it...
 
I Agree

I Agree

Plakerio said:
For a little more you could buy the PPE to work the circuit hot, then pocket the 500 Dollars for the trouble.
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If you have the correct Personal Protective Equipment, Face Shield, rubber gloves and, non conductive tools, plus arch flash rated clothing, then I see no reason not to work on something hot, but only if it is absolutely nessessary.

Just because you don't want to have to reset the alarm clocks, and appliance clocks... not a good enough reason.

"I have always had the upmost respect for Mr. Electricity even when he is not around".
 
Keep in mind that in an arc flash event, if you are wearing the appropriate degree of PPE that will most likely prevent the flash from killing you. But it will not prevent injury, nor even serious burns that leave permanent scars. PPE is not the answer to working hot. It is merely a necessary precaution, and turning off the power is a better precaution.
 
I was forced into this far more often than i should been. Ask the guy if he is willing to stand next to you while you take the risk. Does he have a clue about down time if that panel blows up ? Problem is if you refuse they find a company that will. It is all about money. If you get killed or injured they will simply find another.
 
Plakerio said:
For a little more you could buy the PPE to work the circuit hot, then pocket the 500 Dollars for the trouble.
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Just because you have the correct PPE does not mean you are permitted to work on energized circuits. Other than troubleshooting, it is a very rare case where the OSHA rules permit you to work on or near energized equipment. Having the correct PPE does not change this.
 
brother said:
500 more would I work hot some circuits that they consider less risk.
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This is sort of related to 'dead peasant's insurance' except instead of profiting from your demise [which they have some control over] they pay a small fee to you which you won't be able to use once you are dead.

If a life is worth $200K the rational choice is to do this if the chance of dying from it is less than $500/$200K = 1 chance in 400.
The more times you do it, the more likely you are to die from it. If you do it 300 times with these odds your chance of getting injured or killed is about 50%.

Since employees have limited power of consent you might be able to sue these people for "their offer." It's implied that if you refuse you'll be terminated.
 
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Some of my guys grumble about not being allowed to put in snap in breakers on a live buss anymore, but I tell them: what if the insulator on the buss is damaged or brittle from overheating, when you put pressure on the stabs, it could result in a phase to ground short to the back of the can, which could result in a very nasty arc flash. We have the burnt PPE to prove that it will only help protect you, but is not "bulletproof".
 
LarryFine said:
I prefer to think those odds apply each and every time.
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With 50% odds [0.5], if you worked hot 5 times your odds of escaping injury is 0.5^5 = 0.03 = 3%. It's like flipping a fair coin 5 times and getting all heads or all tails.

If several members can post how many times they worked hot without getting injured the 50% can be more accurately estimated and with more answers luck and skill will cancel out and an 'industry average' can be gauged.
Then if you're in a hurry you can decide how much risk you want to take, but you might want to first look in Google Images for 'electrical amputations.'
 
G._S._Ohm said:
With 50% odds [0.5], if you worked hot 5 times your odds of escaping injury is 0.5^5 = 0.03 = 3%. It's like flipping a fair coin 5 times and getting all heads or all tails.
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There ya' go again, confusing the issue with facts! :roll: :)grin:)
 
Load the gun with 6 bullets then fire at your own head. After the first shot will you do it again ? 2 nd ?

Doing live work sooner or later turns out bad.

men that do minor stuff live sooner or later get careless and then BOOM

Employers wont demand you do it but you know the results if you refuse.
 
My odds of getting killed on the drive to work are much greater than my odds of being killed in an electrical accident. But odds really mean nothing when comparing unrelated events. There is not much I can do to avoid driving into work, OTH I can avoid many electrical hazards by just working safe. :)
 
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