paint and joint compound on cables

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backwaterdogs

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Not doing a whole lot of new construction, I haven't seen this before, at least not the extent on this new house I'm finishing up....

Everything roughed in and all the wire tucked neatly backed into the wall and ceiling boxes, wating for the dirywallers to get done.

Upon returning to the job, about half of the boxes have damaged wires form the drywaller's router!!!

The 2nd issue is when they sprayed on the joint compound, they cover the wires and then did it again with the primer!!!

Two questions: would homicide be justified in this case? If not, what would everyone else do? Just repair the cut wires as best as possible(tape, pigtails, whatever)? What about cleaning the wires and boxes? Everyone comfortable w/ leaving all the paint and compound on the wires?

thanks!
 
backwaterdogs said:
would homicide be justified in this case?

thanks!
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It most definately would! Its the getting caught and prosicuted part that kinda sucks. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents of sarcasm :) .
 
Hitting a few is normal.Our biggest problem is having them not cut out at all.Backcharge is only way they learn.Paint should not be a major problem but thats up to the ahj.
 
backwaterdogs said:
Upon returning to the job, about half of the boxes have damaged wires form the drywaller's router!!!
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I refer to these guys at the "Roto-Zip Rebels". The only way to stop them is to have your state outlaw roto-zips for cutting sheetrock (probably not going to happen though). Just as we have had improvements in our area of construction that make our jobs easier (tools, connectors, wire distribution aids, etc.) the sheetrockers finally got something in the roto-zip that makes their job easier. They just plunge the roto-zip into the wall until they find the JB and route out the box. They no longer have to measure and cut with a saw. My major complaint is that they don't have to set the depth of the cutter so deep. But try asking them to change that !!!

There is a product on the market (a cover plate) that mounts onto plastic JB's that would prevent the roto-zip from damaging our wires. However, that's another expense in purchasing enough of these devices to cover all the JB's on the job and time added to the job to both install and remove these devices and, in addition, you can't install these things until you get a rough inspection. That's another trip back to the job. The only good thing is that they're re-usable. I suppose back-charging is one way to re-coup some of your losses but it's not going to stop the sheetrockers from using the router. If you stop and think about it, what made the sheetrockers job easier (and possibly cheaper for the builder) could potentially increase your costs to the point that you could lose the job. Go figure !!!
 
Thanks for the feedback!

It is frustrating...I guess I will figure an average cost to check & repair damaged wires, plus some time on cleaning off some (will never get all) of the mud and primer off the wires...$600 per JB ought to do it!

The house is out in the county, so no there is no inspection.

thanks again!
 
sheetrockers

sheetrockers

Inour area in so. mass. most of the hangers don't speak english, but they all speak in benjamin's ($100.00) Back charge GC, he'll get their attention, if you can't. They are usaully gone by the time you get back to the job site.
 
Just about every box I ever trimmed out has had paint on the insulated conductors. A quick rub with a finger is all I've ever done to get my identification back.

As far as the rotozip goes, try to keep your wires tucked back, but track the location and time spent on fixing every box. Being very kind, I came up with a $300 backcharge over 30 boxes in a sixplex once. Instead of charging them directly, I used it as currency for free drywall patches where I needed a few holes. Less paperwork that way. :D
 
backwaterdogs said:
Thanks for the feedback!

It is frustrating...I guess I will figure an average cost to check & repair damaged wires, plus some time on cleaning off some (will never get all) of the mud and primer off the wires...$600 per JB ought to do it!

The house is out in the county, so no there is no inspection.

thanks again!
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$600 will do more than you think.The GC will now have a problem.If he keeps you and lets you overcharge he looses his hangers or they raise the price.It is the GC in the end picture that really pays.He might keep the hangers and replace you.Charge your normal hourly fee to fix and every thing likely be ok.
 
Juice them! I back charged a GC once for repairing 27 outlets @ $65/ea. (I charged an hour for each one) After he cleaned out his britches he asked me why, and I explained to him that those wires weren't chewed up or damaged when I installed them and they have to be repaired. Nothing I can do. He said he wouldn't pay and I explained to him he doesn't have to do anything... but I hold the electrical permit and I will get an inspection once the bill is paid in full before I proceed. I settled for half the price but I can assure you that it never happened after that, and I still do work for the guy. Aim high.
 
I saw a slick new device at our Section meeting called a "ClearCover" I think it's by a company called Straight Edge. It snaps into your boxes and then protects the wires from paint and drywall mud. I don't think they'll stop a Rotozip, but they may be worth looking at.
 
I have become acustomed to rolling my device box wires in a round coil in the center of the box.I have found that a drywaller finds the edge and follows it around the box.By coiling the wires like this the damage is alot less.Paint well to me that isn`t a problem.
 
if your panel gets sprayed thats your fault.you are responsible to cut that dotted line around the box it came in and use it.....:rolleyes:
 
That's true. You should have seen the look on the face of the electrician when I told him he needed to clean the 65 panels, installed in an apartment building, that had been drywalled and painted.
 
cowboyjwc said:
That's true. You should have seen the look on the face of the electrician when I told him he needed to clean the 65 panels, installed in an apartment building, that had been drywalled and painted.
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You would $ee a big $mile on my face!
 
JohnJ0906 said:
You would $ee a big $mile on my face!
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Right! I do put the cardboard in my panels, but from time to time they seem to get taken out. If all I have to do is vacuum some drywall dust out of the panel, I'll do that without too much fuss. If the panel got sprayed inside, then I need to dial the phone....

I dropped an exhaust fan in a plumber's bath tub once, and fully expected to get backcharged for it (matter of fact, I called the GC right away). I'm still not sure why drywallers act so surprised at getting backcharges for hacking up wires. Some of the prices suggested in this thread are borderline "usury" or "robbery". Sure it's aggrivating, but charge your normal rates for the repairs and remediation, lest you be labeled with the "shyster" tag.
 
donselectric said:
if your panel gets sprayed thats your fault.you are responsible to cut that dotted line around the box it came in and use it.....:rolleyes:
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Thats the biggest crock I have heard...... If they can mask cabinets to keep the spray off why not a panel ?????A panel is not to be painted and they know that just like cabinets, windows, sgd`s are not to be painted.It is not up to the ec to not paint them it is up to the painting contractor.Give me a break !!!!!!!
 
We had some so stupid as to paint the switches and receptacles.They had lots of fun cleaning it off.Masking is part of painting.Back charge is a fast lesson they will not forget.
 
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