Panel as J-Box

[ryan_618]

I got into a very heated debate about this at another forum, and I am curious what you guys think.

If a service change takes place, should the AHJ approve removing the panel guts from a cabinet and using the cabinet as a J-box for the new circuits?

I am of the opinion that this is perfectly fine, but i am curious what you guys think.

 

[infinity]

Re: Panel as J-Box

So the panel interior is removed and it is used for a junction box to splice new conductors to the old conductors? I say that it would be fine providing a proper cover is installed. The old panel was OK for splices so I see no reason why it couldn't still be used for splices.

 

[roger]

Re: Panel as J-Box

Hello Ryan, this has been discussed here a few times. I also think it is okay. The cabinets are covered under a UL design, "Cabinets and Cutout Boxes" (CYIV), so why can't a cover be made and the cabinet be left in place?

Roger

[ July 03, 2005, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Panel as J-Box

I see this quite often in my area. The only time I have had an issue with this arrangment is when a large raceway such as a 2" PVC conduit is used to connect the old enclosure to the new and they pull all the NM homeruns through the conduit instead of individual conductors. This only occured once or twice.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Panel as J-Box

I've done it hundreds of times. The first time was actually at the suggestion of the inspector. They do make me nut and bolt or rivet the cover shut for some reason, but I'm okay with that.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Panel as J-Box

312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.
(A) Unused Openings. Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters, cabinets, cutout boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment. Where metallic plugs or plates are used with nonmetallic enclosures, they shall be recessed at least 6 mm (? in.) from the outer surface of the enclosure.

By securing the panel door so that it can not be opened by screws, bolt and nut or rivets then 110.12 (A) has been complied with.

312.8 clearly gives permission to have splices and taps in a panel.

I see no problem and have done this installation many times.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Panel as J-Box

312.8 applies to enclosures for switches and overcurrent devices. Since the panelboard is being removed in this case, I don't feel this section applies any longer. The enclosure effectively becomes a box and would only need to comply with Article 314.

 

[BruceH]

Re: Panel as J-Box

Just curious, what would normally be used as a cover? Is the original cover used bolted or riveted, or is a cover fabricated? If so, from what and what gauge? Thank you.

 

[websparky]

Re: Panel as J-Box

Are the service entrance conductors in this old panel also?

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Panel as J-Box

Dave, this is just a theoretical question, so I would say no, ensuring compliance with 230.7.

 

[stud696981]

Re: Panel as J-Box

Seen others do this and done this myself, never a problem with the inspectors.

 

[websparky]

Re: Panel as J-Box

Ryan,
I would have to agree with the others. This is a common practice around my parts. Typically the existing cover has the door screwed closed.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Panel as J-Box

It's a Fourth of July Miracle!!!!! (Ok so all the replies were on the third

 

[iwire]

Re: Panel as J-Box

OK lets continue to use commonsense and say that this is no problem whatsoever.

You can get JBs with hinged doors and a simple latch. Disconnects are another example of equipment you can access live parts without tools.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Panel as J-Box

A retro is a retro is a retro.Meet with the ahj tell him what you intend to do,that`s where the answer lies.
I did a high line home a few tears ago where the boxes were to be intalled in the base boards horizontally.I explained to the ahj the didn`t have elevations per room so I wanted to leave loops and stub outs and we would do old work boxes on trim.We were to trim them out,after trim carpenter cut in the box.
workedfine till there was a 16 ft knee wall in the kitchen that they wanted no outlets on I told them that wouldnt fly and so did inspector but we passed with added receps and another job well done