panel-board recomendation

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PaTerminator

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Lehigh Valley PA
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Electrical Contractor
I've had issues in two separate cases where poor connection between push-in breakers and bus bar have resulted in the breaker arcing/overheating and the bus bar being melted.

Both situations were with 5 hp motors; one was an air compressor, the other was a trash pump. Both were 240 v single phase and had proper starters.

Short of a panel-board with bolt-in breakers, what brand panel board have other people found that this occurs the least?

I prefer using square-D QO, but that was one of the types of panels that I had this very issue. :(
 
Do you drive a Ford or a Chevy or a Dodge?

I use QO a lot because it's easy to get where I live. I like Seimans but the supply house that deals them is fifty miles away.

I would be looking for a problem that did not involve the panel and breaker or I would chalk up a couple of marks in the Anecdotal Evidence column.
 
ActionDave said:
Do you drive a Ford or a Chevy or a Dodge?
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I Drive a Ford pickup, a GMC work van, and a Chrysler minivan.

I'm asking if other people on here have had similar situations with certain brands of panel-boards or load centers having a large motor load, or brands that they have not had any issues.

I mentioned the QO line as it is very common in this area in commercial and industrial installations.
 
PaTerminator said:
I've had issues in two separate cases where poor connection between push-in breakers and bus bar have resulted in the breaker arcing/overheating and the bus bar being melted.

Both situations were with 5 hp motors; one was an air compressor, the other was a trash pump. Both were 240 v single phase and had proper starters.

Short of a panel-board with bolt-in breakers, what brand panel board have other people found that this occurs the least?

I prefer using square-D QO, but that was one of the types of panels that I had this very issue. :(
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Which series of QO panel was it? Some older ones had aluminum bus and were a problem. Their current 6 and 8 space loadcenters with the horizontal bus is also standard aluminum bus though they do have it with optional tin plated copper bus.

I haven't had too much trouble with newer series with tin plated copper bus though and have hooked up a lot of 10 or even 15 HP single phase motors on the farms, or even three phase motors with up to 100 amp breakers supplying them.

If you do develop a bad connection do not use that space or any that were effected by the heating or the breakers that were attached there again - the problem will come back.
 
PaTerminator said:
I've had issues in two separate cases where poor connection between push-in breakers and bus bar have resulted in the breaker arcing/overheating and the bus bar being melted.

Both situations were with 5 hp motors; one was an air compressor, the other was a trash pump. Both were 240 v single phase and had proper starters.

Short of a panel-board with bolt-in breakers, what brand panel board have other people found that this occurs the least?

I prefer using square-D QO, but that was one of the types of panels that I had this very issue. :(
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All brands have failures.

If you don't want to go bolt on than just live with burning up bus stabs.
 
iwire said:
All brands have failures. If you don't want to go bolt on than just live with burning up bus stabs.
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Fortunately we use bolt in almost exclusively where I work and we have not had this problem. Unfortunately, other most recent panel issues have also been with this "Cadillac" brand. This makes me wonder if problems are arising from to much manufacturing responsibility being let out overseas. Some of the competitive edge has been lost for that manufacturing recently, and we may be able to bring some of it home by demanding products made here.
I suppose you would have noticed if the panels were NQOD, (I have seen some of these panels here), since these will accept either snap in or bolt in breakers. That said, now that I'm aware of an issue with the snap in styles; when I next run across one, I'll be likely to check for a cleaner contact, & maybe see if I can't tweak the clips a bit tighter.
 
under8ed said:
Fortunately we use bolt in almost exclusively where I work and we have not had this problem. Unfortunately, other most recent panel issues have also been with this "Cadillac" brand. This makes me wonder if problems are arising from to much manufacturing responsibility being let out overseas. Some of the competitive edge has been lost for that manufacturing recently, and we may be able to bring some of it home by demanding products made here.
I suppose you would have noticed if the panels were NQOD, (I have seen some of these panels here), since these will accept either snap in or bolt in breakers. That said, now that I'm aware of an issue with the snap in styles; when I next run across one, I'll be likely to check for a cleaner contact, & maybe see if I can't tweak the clips a bit tighter.
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If clips have been overheated you can tweak them all you want - they will no longer have same spring pressure they originally had when they were new though - this goes for all plug on jaw types and even fuse holders.
 
kwired said:
If clips have been overheated you can tweak them all you want - they will no longer have same spring pressure they originally had when they were new though - this goes for all plug on jaw types and even fuse holders.
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Yes that makes perfect sense; I was thinking more on a new install; but once the temper of the clip has been factory set, that may be wasted time and energy as well. Not using the snap in much, I don't remember how accessible the clips are, would it ever be practical to salvage clips from extra single breakers to save the more expensive multiple pole breakers? I expect one would need to be in a pretty hard jam to try, given the low cost involved and knowing the breaker had been hot.
 
under8ed said:
Yes that makes perfect sense; I was thinking more on a new install; but once the temper of the clip has been factory set, that may be wasted time and energy as well. Not using the snap in much, I don't remember how accessible the clips are, would it ever be practical to salvage clips from extra single breakers to save the more expensive multiple pole breakers? I expect one would need to be in a pretty hard jam to try, given the low cost involved and knowing the breaker had been hot.
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You would have to drill out rivets that hold the case together and at least partially disassemble the breaker to be able to replace the bus jaws or clips. Even a 100 amp QO breaker is low enough cost to replace then to even give such a task much thought, unless you work for really cheap labor rates. I have taken a few breakers apart before just out of curiosity to find out what may have failed, but never even though of putting one back together and actually using it again.
 
Like ActionDave, I also like Seimens. I have learned to respect German engineering and they seem to ensure quality control regardless where their products are manufactured
 
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