panel changes

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MJGero

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Good morning! I would like to get some guideance with code sections. I am dealing with a panel change, 60 amp fused K & T to 100 amp breakers. The contractor wants to just use a 1 1/2, 2 inch pvc condiut connector and feed all the K & T wires through it. When I told him each wire should be secured to the panel (nec 312.6(B) ) and that power and nuetrals should be parred (nec 300.3(B) ), he replied that there was not a listed connector for knob and tube wiring and it would be illegal to do. Please advise me with code sections and your reasoning and interpetations.
 
MJGero said:
Good morning! I would like to get some guideance with code sections. I am dealing with a panel change, 60 amp fused K & T to 100 amp breakers. The contractor wants to just use a 1 1/2, 2 inch pvc condiut connector and feed all the K & T wires through it. When I told him each wire should be secured to the panel (nec 312.6(B) ) and that power and nuetrals should be parred (nec 300.3(B) ), he replied that there was not a listed connector for knob and tube wiring and it would be illegal to do. Please advise me with code sections and your reasoning and interpetations.
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K & T should be removed and replaced with NMC
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
How do you plan to fasten it ?
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fasten the K & T to the box? or to panel? you would still need some type of connector, a romex connector or plastic push in connector? I'm not sure I following the reasoning of connecting NM to K & T in a juction box above the panel. Please tell me what i am missing.
 
MJGero said:
I'm not sure I following the reasoning of connecting NM to K & T in a juction box above the panel. Please tell me what i am missing.
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I agree.

394.19(B) seems to indicate sleeving it in pvc flex is how you'd connect it properly to the panel.
 
MJGero said:
would that section include the loom as "flexible nonmetalic tubing"? what connector would you use then?
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Loom is the stuff that is used where K&T conductors inter a box or enclosure. You really need to see it in use to know what it really consists of but I remember it being used in short pieces, braided on the outside and a rubbery material. I don't recall what kind of clamps were used if any. I did find a nice article on K&T but have not read it to verify its accuracy. :smile:
 
charlie said:
Loom is the stuff that is used where K&T conductors inter a box or enclosure. You really need to see it in use to know what it really consists of but I remember it being used in short pieces, braided on the outside and a rubbery material. I don't recall what kind of clamps were used if any. I did find a nice article on K&T but have not read it to verify its accuracy. :smile:
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Charlie I am old and been around awhile but is that Loom similar to a let's say like a kellums grip only non metallic......??
 
dcspector said:
Charlie I am old and been around awhile but is that Loom similar to a let's say like a kellums grip only non metallic......??
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I have an old (1918) house, full of K&T. The loom in my house looks like small diameter black rubber hose, big enough for a single conductor, wrapped in a braided covering of black threads. It looks like the braided covering on early romex. The loom just slides on, it doesn't really attach to the wire. Where the conducters enter a box, or protrude through the plaster wall, each individual conducter has it's own piece of loom. So, where they enter a box, each conductor, in its own piece of loom, enters through a seperate hole. Most of the boxes use what appears to be a built-in romex style clamp to secure the loom.

Where they protrude through a wall, the plaster holds it in place. The wires then are connected to the fixture which is then screwed to the wall. The recess in the back of the fixture, and the plaster wall, form the enclosure for the wires and connections.

In the OPs case, just stuffing both conductors, from all the circuits (typically just 4) through one opening doesn't sound right.
 
dcspector said:
Charlie I am old and been around awhile but is that Loom similar to a let's say like a kellums grip only non metallic......??
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As described above, it provides no grip. It's purely for physical protection. With K&T, the K's and T's suspend the wires in the air, but some wires have to contact wood or metal.

The loom is slid over wires where they cross, between the last insulator and, say, a hole in the ceiling for fixtures without (before) boxes, or through Ko's in outlet and fuse boxes.

In those cases, the conductors entered the boxes individually, in spite of the prohibition we have now. I guess the loads of the day didn't induce that much eddy-current heat.
 
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