Panel getting warm

[mark32]

A potential customer says his 200 amp, single phase GE panel gets quite warm to the touch, to the point where one could only keep their hand on the enclosure for a moment before removing because of the heat. The panel resides in his liquor store, in the morning the panel is cool but around noon and beyond the above occurs, this has been happening for years. Customer claims one leg is pulling 116a the other 108a, but has never had any troubles and the wiring looks good as opposed to crispy insulation on the branch circuits and no tripping of any breakers. He is concerned and would like to remedy the situation but I'm unsure what to suggest.

 

[Buck Parrish]

1)
You could take the main breaker out. Check under it for any signs of corrosion. This could cause it to heat.
If it is truly getting hot you should be able to see signs of it on the bus bar some where. The metal will loose tempermant.

2) Also do a load calc. It may be the unbalanced phase.

3) You might have to up size the service

 

[mcclary's electrical]

sounds like the service is undersized to me,,,,,,but I would check the main,,,,the old crouse hines panel with the stab in mains are FAMOUS for burning the bus and the main,,,,I changed four last year (different homes) one need a new bus,,,,,so check that out,,,if that's fine,,,it's overloaded.

 

[nez]

You may consider buying or renting some power logger equipment. Also an thermal scanner. If it is possible leave the power logger hooked up for a week and it will show you any problems with the service. We use a fluke model. It logs voltage, kva, amps, powerfactor, impedence and other things. Maybe you have undervoltage problems when the warming starts. A thermal scanner will show immediatly if you have a bad connection. Just charge for your time investigating. Both meters have software that you can make a printout of the results. Maybe you can prove he needs a larger service. Or it could be a utility problem.

 

[bob]

It's not undersized if the load is only 116 amps. "in the morning the panel is cool" sounds like it being heated by the sun.

 

[Strahan]

Whats the load on the panel in the morning when the panel is cool?

Sounds like a loose or improper connection somewhere. When you say the panel is warm to the touch do you mean the whole panel or an area closer to the main? Try to locate where the heat is radiating from by feeling the main and/or individual breakers. I would bet the problem lies in the main but if not try shedding loads and monitor results.

 

[LarryFine]

The mid-day heat increase could be pointing to the A/C supply circuit.

 

[crazyboy]

In addition I think I would take a few IR shots of the panel at various points in the day.

 

[quogueelectric]

Buy a cheap fluke ir laser thermometer and find out exactly where the heat is coming from.

 

[ptonsparky]

A potential customer says his 200 amp, single phase GE panel gets quite warm to the touch, to the point where one could only keep their hand on the enclosure for a moment before removing because of the heat. The panel resides in his liquor store, in the morning the panel is cool but around noon and beyond the above occurs, this has been happening for years. Customer claims one leg is pulling 116a the other 108a, but has never had any troubles and the wiring looks good as opposed to crispy insulation on the branch circuits and no tripping of any breakers. He is concerned and would like to remedy the situation but I'm unsure what to suggest.

Suggest a service call first then you can make recommendations based on facts, not what he claims.

 

[Cow]

Suggest a service call first then you can make recommendations based on facts, not what he claims.

Exactly. This isn't an over-the-phone diagnosis, you need to lay your own two eyes on the problem.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

1. there is no actual temperature taken, such as via testing equipment.
2. only a person saying it is hot to the touch, some people are way more sensitive then others,
3. Someone needs to perform actual tests for temperature, load, etc... That will provide a lot of necessary information to make qualified determination.


Lets not forget that properly installed circuits/feeders can reach high temperatures with a large load on them. (check out the temperatures permitted for different Types of conductors in Table 310.13 & 310.16.

There may not be a problem at all.

 

[mark32]

Thanks for all the replies,

I may go and look at the job as I am curious to see just how hot this thing gets and to see how it's laid out. I have never come a cross such a situation so I mainly wanted to know how dangerous it was and what could cause this to happen. Who knows how accurate his numbers are and how hot it really gets, just like some of you have said. Also, as Pierre has stated, there may not be a problem at all, which was my initial thought since he's had no problems. I'll post if I go check things out.

 

[mark32]

I called the gentleman yesterday to schedule a service call but his associate said they replaced a single 20a breaker and now things seem to be okay!? We'll see if he calls me back.