Panel Locations

[rrr_usty]

I have a customer that has a liquor store that has a 3 phase, 200 amp panel inside of a display cooler for the beer.
We do not have a working space issue, because that is met, we have a temperature of 30 F inside the cooler.
Anything about a panel inside the cooler where subject to cold temperatures as a code violation?
I see breaker panel installed outside and in the dead of winter it can be pretty cold.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have a customer that has a liquor store that has a 3 phase, 200 amp panel inside of a display cooler for the beer.
We do not have a working space issue, because that is met, we have a temperature of 30 F inside the cooler.
Anything about a panel inside the cooler where subject to cold temperatures as a code violation?
I see breaker panel installed outside and in the dead of winter it can be pretty cold.

I suspect the panel must be WP in the cooler because of the dampness but I am not certain of that. Otherwise I think the install is bizarre but legal.

 

[ultramegabob]

I think it may be legal, but a bad design, and if you plan on doing service calls there in the future, you should plan on bringing a parka.... I do alot of work for liquor stores, and there coolers are extreamly cold!!

 

[ceb58]

Would like to see some IR shots of those breakers:grin:

 

[ultramegabob]

another thing to think about is having to seal off the conduits going into the cooler, if you dont, you will draw warm air through the conduits and the water vapor with condensate most likely dripping into the panel....

 

[iwire]

if you plan on doing service calls there in the future, you should plan on bringing a parka.... I do alot of work for liquor stores, and there coolers are extreamly cold!!

Toughen up Bob :grin:

another thing to think about is having to seal off the conduits going into the cooler, if you dont, you will draw warm air through the conduits and the water vapor with condensate most likely dripping into the panel....

That is a very good point. :smile:

If the conduits are not sealed you will have water issues eventually, sometimes very quickly.

We built a new grocery store, we had a large walk in freezer up and running at -10F for about a week and the light switch just inside the door filled with ice in that short time, the conduit from outside the cooler had not been sealed.

 

[tim robben]

I have a customer that has a liquor store that has a 3 phase, 200 amp panel inside of a display cooler for the beer.
We do not have a working space issue, because that is met, we have a temperature of 30 F inside the cooler.
Anything about a panel inside the cooler where subject to cold temperatures as a code violation?
I see breaker panel installed outside and in the dead of winter it can be pretty cold.

Per Article 100, Definitions it is a Damp Location (look for Location, Damp).
Per Article 408.37 the panelboard shall be installed to comply with 312.2.
Article 312.2 talks about surface mounting only (I assume that is the case here since you can't recess in a standard pre-manufactured cooler panel).

I'm not sure how you comply with "...placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture or water from entering..." beyond conduit seals. Do you provide a gasketed NEMA 1 cover?

 

[LarryFine]

I wonder if the breakers need to be re-rated for the ambient temperature? They may carry 200% for a long time.

 

[iwire]

Per Article 100, Definitions it is a Damp Location (look for Location, Damp).
Per Article 408.37 the panelboard shall be installed to comply with 312.2.
Article 312.2 talks about surface mounting only (I assume that is the case here since you can't recess in a standard pre-manufactured cooler panel).

I'm not sure how you comply with "...placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture or water from entering..." beyond conduit seals. Do you provide a gasketed NEMA 1 cover?

A NEMA 3R is listed for damp locations.

 

[iwire]

I wonder if the breakers need to be re-rated for the ambient temperature? They may carry 200% for a long time.

Beer cooler = 35 F or so.

Panels mounted outside maybe less then 0 F, I guess I am missing the concerns for this particular installation? :-?

I do alot of work for liquor stores, and there coolers are extremely cold!!

You would love this place we did about 8 years ago ...

The only part of it that is not -10F is the smaller bump out on the bottom right, those are offices and luckily the electrical rooms.