Panel Make-up (labels)

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mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I am currently working at a new Amazon building and am making up panel after panel. I have tried some different techniques to try and be a bit faster and what I have noticed that the labeling slows me down.

Does anyone know of a video, website, or blog that provides best practices for an accurate and speedy panel Make-up?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Use label makers with either internal memory or PC/phone interface to store information on? Can even have the labels already made before you are on site. If doing a lot of repetitive labels can just copy/paste in the application or print multiples of same thing when that works for you.

Wanted, desired, specified to use the directory label already on the door - just make labels you can stick on that directory.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If the plans include panel schedules, can you copy them, edit if needed, then print and attach them?
 

mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Sorry, I am talking about labeling the wires before they get landed, not the panel schedule. At this point I label the panel in phases.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sorry, I am talking about labeling the wires before they get landed, not the panel schedule. At this point I label the panel in phases.
Order custom conductors with markings, tracers, etc. so that you don't have to mark them when terminating? Otherwise most conductor marking methods take similar time and effort to apply.
 

mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
What method you using now.
I'm just trying to find a fast an accurate way to land wires on a panel. Not that what I am doing is wrong, just wondering if anyone has any methods that make panel installs faster. I have roughly 64 panels to work on. If I can shave my time per panel it will really help.

I have been experimenting with different ways to figure out how I can be faster.

I am thinking of using a marker of some sort to label the wires during rough install.

In my last panel I paired all of the wires with tape up near the connector. I then wrapped the correct number from a book around the tape. Then I weaved all of my wire to their correct side of the panel. Then I landed them and labled the hot wires only.

The wires were not labeled on the ends of the wire and it was difficult to locate some of the tags up above.
 

mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Order custom conductors with markings, tracers, etc. so that you don't have to mark them when terminating? Otherwise most conductor marking methods take similar time and effort to apply.
I wish that was an option.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'm just trying to find a fast an accurate way to land wires on a panel. Not that what I am doing is wrong, just wondering if anyone has any methods that make panel installs faster. I have roughly 64 panels to work on. If I can shave my time per panel it will really help.

I have been experimenting with different ways to figure out how I can be faster.

I am thinking of using a marker of some sort to label the wires during rough install.

In my last panel I paired all of the wires with tape up near the connector. I then wrapped the correct number from a book around the tape. Then I weaved all of my wire to their correct side of the panel. Then I landed them and labled the hot wires only.

The wires were not labeled on the ends of the wire and it was difficult to locate some of the tags up above.
The more conductors and/or less colors of conductors the more difficult it may be to use a marker, at least on small conductors as you are more limited to using just "tally marks". If you have 8 maybe even 10 AWG or larger it gets easier to actually print on them with a fairly sharp pointed marker. Then you also need to make sure they aren't disturbed long enough for your marking to dry or it may not be legible.

Use white paint marker on dark colored conductors where a black marker might not show up so easily. Those typically do take longer to dry than a sharpie so make sure to let them dry before much other handling or you might not be able to read them.
 

mtnelect

HVAC & Electrical Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor, C10 & C20 - Semi Retired
When I was working on PI for the next code, I discovered "sleeve labels" that you slide on the wires. They use them a lot on digital cables.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
When I was working on PI for the next code, I discovered "sleeve labels" that you slide on the wires. They use them a lot on digital cables.
There is shrink labels. Though taking the time to shrink them maybe doesn't save you any time vs sticky back wrap labels. They definitely will stay on pretty much indefinitely though but the sticky ones might cost less to use for temporary marking and replace with shrink when making final connection.

Supply houses typically stock number labels cards in 1-45 and if lucky 46-90. If you look online you can get even more variety. I got number cards with numbers as high as 200 on them, possibly can go even higher. Those come in handy for me mostly with controls but certainly could be used on power and lighting circuits as well. They might get put on before pulling or get ringed out and marked after pulling, take your pick on that, then when doing final termination either peel off old and move it or cut and replace with a new number label. Use of a label with 158 is quicker and simpler than using a 1 a 5 and an 8. Plus it is one piece and you don't have any confusion down the road if say the 1 falls off for some reason.
 

Tulsa Electrician

Senior Member
Location
Tulsa
Occupation
Electrician
Ok I see what your doing now.
I will assume no one marked the pipes or made a pulling map for the panel. They had just labeled the wires as the pulled them. Hopefully they grouped the hot and netural per code as applicable. From what I read you had to group by the connector.
I will also assume the wires are color coded per phase/ system.

If this is the case pretty typical each in it for them selves. I run pipe, I pull wire, you hook up. No crew cooperation.

I would do the following.
I would make a map first or mark in back of panle the circuit numbers as you group if applicable.

Then you have choices to make.
If you have a netural bar on each side. You can either land them straight down which takes time to mark as you go or cross over to the odd/ even side of required to lable. You stated you do not. So straight down they go. I do not like that however it is the speed way to do and neater than having both cross.
Basically once grouped cut and land ascending from the bottom hole on the netural bar for each side.

If netural are required to be labeled.
I land odd on left side even on right side using the netural hole descending.
Cir #1 netural in #1 hole on netural bar. Then lable all when done. You skip the hole that has no netural in the circuit. I do this even if labeling not required so I can test circuits using current law. Very easy for service guy as well. All drawing match this method.

Then simply land hoys per map or marked panle and lable when done.
An apprentice can do this while you move to next one and you can check there work.
I move left to right.
Example
Pipe 1 is 1,3,5
Black
Red
Blue.

If more than three 120 volt circuits I use odd man out.

1,3,5,7
7 get grouped with the EGC.
1,3,5 goes first than a quick check and land 7. No mix up on black.
It's a double check method.

Now you should have netural hole 1,2,3,4 on odd side with a wire in it and the first four odd side 120 volt breakers. The go to pipe 2.
If pipe 2 has odd and even cir numbers group, land odd and then even sticking with the left to right rule.

Let say pipe 2 has cir 9,11,13 #22
22 is group and taped to green.
Netural hole #11 or right side get unscrewed and breaker 22 is put in the on position.
Your working this panel de- energized, yes.
Now you land 9,11,13. Once done you land 22. This the easy double check for 22.
If you made a map, I would have.
Cross those pipes off. Pipe one and two are done.
Do quick scan, black,red blue and so on. 22 is what color? Red!
So odd man out in pipe 2 is Red.
The pulling map will also identify any issue prior to make up.
Let's say you have a 42 circuit panle with all line to netural loads.
All 42 circuit must be accounted for prior to make up. This method catch many pulling errors. Also makes it easy to see where. Another double check. Four circuits per pipe equal 40 circuits and 80 wires plus EGC if applicable. Where is the other two.
With a copy of the panle scheldule posted you draw a single line through the one accounted for.
Now what four are missing. Or which ones are doubled up.
Example, an x would the same number twice. 22 twice and one is blue. This may be 42. This wire get tucked away up top and you compare the home run chart if one was made. Sound like to me one was not.
Also I. The copy of the panle scheldule there would be conductor sizing. A line through that and your good. A circle and there's a pulling error. Again set those up top for corrections. If scheldule is not marked the pulling crew should have wrote it in, most do not.

I could add more however I hope you get the jist of it.
Two options.
Land down ascending or left to right descending. Be consistent with one or the other.
Speed will follow.

On design build I work with the left right rule.
The pipe work is done so odd is on left and even on right. Make life simple. Landing is super easy and clean.
 

mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
The more conductors and/or less colors of conductors the more difficult it may be to use a marker, at least on small conductors as you are more limited to using just "tally marks". If you have 8 maybe even 10 AWG or larger it gets easier to actually print on them with a fairly sharp pointed marker. Then you also need to make sure they aren't disturbed long enough for your marking to dry or it may not be legible.

Use white paint marker on dark colored conductors where a black marker might not show up so easily. Those typically do take longer to dry than a sharpie so make sure to let them dry before much other handling or you might not be able to read them.
Everything is #10. I have a white marker on the way.
 

mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Ok I see what your doing now.
I will assume no one marked the pipes or made a pulling map for the panel. They had just labeled the wires as the pulled them. Hopefully they grouped the hot and netural per code as applicable. From what I read you had to group by the connector.
I will also assume the wires are color coded per phase/ system.

If this is the case pretty typical each in it for them selves. I run pipe, I pull wire, you hook up. No crew cooperation.

I would do the following.
I would make a map first or mark in back of panle the circuit numbers as you group if applicable.

Then you have choices to make.
If you have a netural bar on each side. You can either land them straight down which takes time to mark as you go or cross over to the odd/ even side of required to lable. You stated you do not. So straight down they go. I do not like that however it is the speed way to do and neater than having both cross.
Basically once grouped cut and land ascending from the bottom hole on the netural bar for each side.

If netural are required to be labeled.
I land odd on left side even on right side using the netural hole descending.
Cir #1 netural in #1 hole on netural bar. Then lable all when done. You skip the hole that has no netural in the circuit. I do this even if labeling not required so I can test circuits using current law. Very easy for service guy as well. All drawing match this method.

Then simply land hoys per map or marked panle and lable when done.
An apprentice can do this while you move to next one and you can check there work.
I move left to right.
Example
Pipe 1 is 1,3,5
Black
Red
Blue.

If more than three 120 volt circuits I use odd man out.

1,3,5,7
7 get grouped with the EGC.
1,3,5 goes first than a quick check and land 7. No mix up on black.
It's a double check method.

Now you should have netural hole 1,2,3,4 on odd side with a wire in it and the first four odd side 120 volt breakers. The go to pipe 2.
If pipe 2 has odd and even cir numbers group, land odd and then even sticking with the left to right rule.

Let say pipe 2 has cir 9,11,13 #22
22 is group and taped to green.
Netural hole #11 or right side get unscrewed and breaker 22 is put in the on position.
Your working this panel de- energized, yes.
Now you land 9,11,13. Once done you land 22. This the easy double check for 22.
If you made a map, I would have.
Cross those pipes off. Pipe one and two are done.
Do quick scan, black,red blue and so on. 22 is what color? Red!
So odd man out in pipe 2 is Red.
The pulling map will also identify any issue prior to make up.
Let's say you have a 42 circuit panle with all line to netural loads.
All 42 circuit must be accounted for prior to make up. This method catch many pulling errors. Also makes it easy to see where. Another double check. Four circuits per pipe equal 40 circuits and 80 wires plus EGC if applicable. Where is the other two.
With a copy of the panle scheldule posted you draw a single line through the one accounted for.
Now what four are missing. Or which ones are doubled up.
Example, an x would the same number twice. 22 twice and one is blue. This may be 42. This wire get tucked away up top and you compare the home run chart if one was made. Sound like to me one was not.
Also I. The copy of the panle scheldule there would be conductor sizing. A line through that and your good. A circle and there's a pulling error. Again set those up top for corrections. If scheldule is not marked the pulling crew should have wrote it in, most do not.

I could add more however I hope you get the jist of it.
Two options.
Land down ascending or left to right descending. Be consistent with one or the other.
Speed will follow.

On design build I work with the left right rule.
The pipe work is done so odd is on left and even on right. Make life simple. Landing is super easy and clean.
Appriciate the reply. Yes, de-energized panel. I will be able to choose what goes down each pipe soon enough. Right now I am I. The middle of cleaning up other people's messes.

I was just delivered a marker and am testing it out. So far the ink just rubs off. I may need an enamel marker.
 

mspicka

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
The oil based permanent fine tipped markers arrived today and I tested them on some wire and the paint will not rub off like the acrylic. Score! I have a panel to make-up and I will be giving this a run tomorrow.
 
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