Panelboard Access

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jeff43222

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Minneapolis, Minnesota
I was on a residential job the other day that required access to the panelboard. When I got to the basement, I discovered that the homeowner (or a previous homeowner) had built a workbench in such a way that access to the panelboard was severely limited, and clearly in violation of the 3' rule.

How do you guys handle such situations? I wanted to tell them I'd be happy to come back and do the job when the panelboard was accessible, but I knew that wouldn't fly because they had no intention of tearing out the workbench. So I went ahead and did the job, despite the hassle of having to climb over the bench to get at the panel.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

Working space is nice and it provides additional safety when trying to access the equipment. However, you should not have to gain access to the panelboard while energized and therefore it is more of an inconvienence then a hazard.

Make the needed repairs and explain to the homeowner that working space is needed for future work to be performed. In a home with limited storage space, working clearances are hardly ever kept in tact. If this was a commercial occupancy or place of business, I would enforce the equiment and working space more strictly.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

There were two additional options available. Option #1 was to walk away from the job. No job is worth placing your life in danger. Option #2 was to have the utility pull the meter (or get them to allow you to do it yourself), and arrange a separate power source to provide light for the work area. The working clearance requirement goes away, if the panel is not energized. If the homeowner balks at having power off to the whole house, then go back to Option #1.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

i would like to say that i have never done that, but that is not true. i certainly do not tell others to do that.

i have done worse and am alive. i reached a place in my life where that kind of work became irritating. i resented that others asked me to do it, i hated it when i said yes. I only am saying this because I know that there are many electricians who work hot all the time in, on, or under poor working conditions.

I have been shocked enough. I am positive that i have used more than a normal share of cat lives. I would do some testing hot, but stopped the actual working hot stupidly.

this is like therapy where i get to tell others not to do what i have done.

i know that the experience that leads towards wisdom does not come from always doing the safe thing, but surviving the mistakes.

with that said, knowing it won't change anything, you should know that others have been in your shoes with differing attitudes and results

paul
 
Re: Panelboard Access

The problem with situations like this one is that if you don't do the work - someone else will. If it comes down to just being an inconvenience, I would do the work. If it came down to being dangerous, I would walk away.

Having said that, there seems to have been an era (for lack of a better term) years ago, where homeowners either finished their own basements or built workshops around their electric panels, making it inconvenient to add to or work on them. I guess they figured that they would probably never have to add to or change the characteristics of their electrical service. Then came things like central air conditioning, hot tubs, small additions, etc. and low and behold you now have to take out a permit to do the work. This is where the AHJ becomes your new best friend because he/she will definitely cite the homeowner with a violation.

So, if you're in a situation where you are only doing some small service work, you'll have to deal with the inconvenience. If you are in a situation where you have to take out a permit, you can inform the homeowner that the inspector will not pass the job unless there is proper access to the electric panel.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

In this case, it wasn't so much a hazard as an inconvenience. I could still get at the panelboard, but it required me to stand awkwardly off to the side or sit/crouch on the workbench because the workbench was in the way.

I realize I could have just walked away from the job, but I only needed to get into the panelboard to run one new branch circuit. I do like the idea of getting the AHJ involved on the inspection end to "encourage" the homeowner to keep the panelboard clear.

Thanks for all the responses.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

Originally posted by jeff43222: . . . it wasn't so much a hazard as an inconvenience. I could still get at the panelboard, but it required me to stand awkwardly off to the side or sit/crouch on the workbench. . . .
Click to expand...
That inconvenience is what makes it a hazard! If you had accidentally come into contact with something live within the panelboard (and thank heavens that you did not), and if the shock was beyond the ?let go? value of current, then perhaps the only thing that could have saved your life was having the weight of your falling body pull your hands away from the panel. But if you did not have enough room to fall, if for example you had been propped up against the work bench, then you chance of surviving the event would have been dramatically reduced.

I have said this before on this Forum, and I?ll say it again: The reason for having working clearance is not to give the worker room to work. It is to give the worker?s body room to fall.

When you consider taking risks, there are three things that must be taken into account.
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The first consideration is the probability of an accident. If you are skilled, and if you are careful, and if you are not under any special kind of pressure, then the probability of an accident may be low.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Looking only at this probability, you might think the risk is worth taking.
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The second consideration is the possible consequences of an accident.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You must absolutely believe that an accident can happen. The question to ask is, ?How bad can it be?? We have all been shocked at some point in our careers. That was bad enough. But it can be worse. We lose far too many members of our profession every year to electrocution.
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The third consideration is what can you do to reduce either the probability or the consequences of an accident.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In this specific example, providing the proper working clearances can contribute both to reducing the probability of an accidental and to reducing the consequences of an accident.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

1. you installed a circuit - does that not require a permit and/or at least an inspection?
2. 110.26 the first paragraph is general and does not stipulate that the equipment is being tested live or not.
3. the injury may not be electrically related at all, but a fall or twist, etc... that could disable you for life and make supporting your family very difficult at the least - the consequences are far more reaching than just a personal injury.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

It's a tough call sometimes.Do you call your boss and say i won't do this job because i don't have proper work space ? Do this often and you might find yourself unemployed.No he won't state that as the reason.Use your own judgement for the job at hand.I would not think twice about pulling a meter.Call poco after and ask them to reseal meter.I have yet to have them get upset over this.This is your life involved so do what is required to stay safe.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

You've all made some good points here.

I hadn't really thought about the reason for working space being about room for a body to fall away from the panel, but it does make sense.

Yes, the new circuit does require a permit/inspection, but it hasn't been inspected yet. Final inspections often take up to two weeks to schedule. I suspect the inspector may not care that much about working space, though. The house had a hot tub installed several years ago, with the new circuit for it, and the workbench was there then.

I made the decision to go ahead and do the work because I felt I could do it safely. I always wear gloves when I work inside a hot panel, and I take my time. Also, I didn't have to worry about getting fired, as I'm a one-man shop.

On the whole, though, I think in the future I'm going to insist on having proper working clearances. This business is risky enough as it is.
 
Re: Panelboard Access

We all can be fired.Some by our boss others by the customer.If you can afford to pass up work then do it.I always have said if asked to do something i feel unsafe then i rather get fired than die or get hurt for life.Have had to pull a few meters but always did the job.
 
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