while checking a job out for a service upgrade I noticed a water drain pipe to the right and 6" in front of the panel. Does this fall into the 30" min. work space rule, and would I need to move the drain or the panel to meet this requirement. Since the existing equipment is there does this fall into another catagory?
Panelboard Location
- Thread starter morpheus
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flightline
Senior Member
Re: Panelboard Location
I will venture a guess that the drain was added after the electrical equipment was installed.
Since you will be the one "touching" or better yet modifying this electrical instalation, you would be responsible to meet current codes.
If it were me working on this equipment, I wouldn't want to have the working space comprimised by a drain pipe, possibly metallic.
I don't have the NEC handy right now, but the Chicago Electrical Code, which closely emulates the NEC, says:
PART B. 600 VOLTS, NOMINAL, OR LESS
18-27-110.26. Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation
and maintenance of such equipment.
(a) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating, at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground shall comply with the
dimensions of (1), (2), and (3) of this subsection or as required or permitted elsewhere in this chapter.
(1) Depth of Working Space. The depth of the working space in the direction of access to live parts shall not be less than 3 ft
(914 mm). Where the working space is between adjacent equipment the distance shall not be less than 4 ft (1.22 m). Distances shall
be measured from the live parts if such are exposed or from the enclosure front or opening if such are enclosed.
Exception No. 1: Working space shall not be required in back or sides of assemblies, such as dead-front switchboards or motor
control centers, where verified by the manufacturer that there are no renewable or adjustable parts, such as fuses or switches, on the
back or sides and where all connections are accessible from locations other than the back or sides. Where rear access is required to
work on de-energized parts on the back of enclosed equipment, a minimum working space of 3 feet horizontally shall be provided.
Exception No. 2: By special permission, smaller spaces shall be permitted where all uninsulated parts are at a voltage no greater
than 30 volts rms, 42 volts peak, or 60 volts dc.
(2) Width of Working Space. The width of the working space in front of the electric equipment shall be the width of the
equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is greater. In all cases, the work space shall permit at least 90 degree opening of equipment
doors or hinged panes.
(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to the height required
by Section 18-27-110.26(e). Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment associated with the electrical installation
located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 6 in. (153 mm) beyond the front of the
electrical equipment.
I will venture a guess that the drain was added after the electrical equipment was installed.
Since you will be the one "touching" or better yet modifying this electrical instalation, you would be responsible to meet current codes.
If it were me working on this equipment, I wouldn't want to have the working space comprimised by a drain pipe, possibly metallic.
I don't have the NEC handy right now, but the Chicago Electrical Code, which closely emulates the NEC, says:
PART B. 600 VOLTS, NOMINAL, OR LESS
18-27-110.26. Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation
and maintenance of such equipment.
(a) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating, at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground shall comply with the
dimensions of (1), (2), and (3) of this subsection or as required or permitted elsewhere in this chapter.
(1) Depth of Working Space. The depth of the working space in the direction of access to live parts shall not be less than 3 ft
(914 mm). Where the working space is between adjacent equipment the distance shall not be less than 4 ft (1.22 m). Distances shall
be measured from the live parts if such are exposed or from the enclosure front or opening if such are enclosed.
Exception No. 1: Working space shall not be required in back or sides of assemblies, such as dead-front switchboards or motor
control centers, where verified by the manufacturer that there are no renewable or adjustable parts, such as fuses or switches, on the
back or sides and where all connections are accessible from locations other than the back or sides. Where rear access is required to
work on de-energized parts on the back of enclosed equipment, a minimum working space of 3 feet horizontally shall be provided.
Exception No. 2: By special permission, smaller spaces shall be permitted where all uninsulated parts are at a voltage no greater
than 30 volts rms, 42 volts peak, or 60 volts dc.
(2) Width of Working Space. The width of the working space in front of the electric equipment shall be the width of the
equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is greater. In all cases, the work space shall permit at least 90 degree opening of equipment
doors or hinged panes.
(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to the height required
by Section 18-27-110.26(e). Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment associated with the electrical installation
located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 6 in. (153 mm) beyond the front of the
electrical equipment.
bonding jumper
Senior Member
Re: Panelboard Location
how far to the right? Work space is found by taking the width of the panel and 30" in front of it, and nothing should be below or above. But you can work around these sometimes by using shims or building out the panel from the wall, depends on the situation.
Edit: How wide is your panel board? Because the NEC might be the same as the post above "30" or the width of the panel, whichever is greater"
[ July 15, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: bonding jumper ]
how far to the right? Work space is found by taking the width of the panel and 30" in front of it, and nothing should be below or above. But you can work around these sometimes by using shims or building out the panel from the wall, depends on the situation.
What do u mean by this? You cannot use the "Existing non-conforming" loophole if you are upgrading the service, because you are upgrading, when u upgrade you must conform with all current codes.
Edit: How wide is your panel board? Because the NEC might be the same as the post above "30" or the width of the panel, whichever is greater"
[ July 15, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: bonding jumper ]
Re: Panelboard Location
I'd ask your local inspector about this situation,
a little common sense will go a long way.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it a safety issue.
Is it a hazzard.
Is it really a danger.
Sometimes it's hard to go by the letter of the code.
Art. 90.4 may apply.
Myself , I would have to see the situation.
I'd ask your local inspector about this situation,
a little common sense will go a long way.
Ask yourself these questions:
Is it a safety issue.
Is it a hazzard.
Is it really a danger.
Sometimes it's hard to go by the letter of the code.
Art. 90.4 may apply.
Myself , I would have to see the situation.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Panelboard Location
But where does it say that the 30" is side to side?
Why couldn't it be right next to the panel as long as there is a total of 30"?
But where does it say that the 30" is side to side?
Why couldn't it be right next to the panel as long as there is a total of 30"?
george t. everett
Senior Member
- Location
- New York
Re: Panelboard Location
Luke, That's the way I understand it. It can be just to the right of the panel as long as you have 30" to the left.
Luke, That's the way I understand it. It can be just to the right of the panel as long as you have 30" to the left.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Panelboard Location
I agree with Luke and George the 30" does not have to be centered on the panel.
The 30" can start at one edge of the panel and panels beside each other can share this space.
To me it is not clear from the post if the pipe is to the right of the panel or in front of it.
By Morpheus
I agree with Luke and George the 30" does not have to be centered on the panel.
The 30" can start at one edge of the panel and panels beside each other can share this space.
To me it is not clear from the post if the pipe is to the right of the panel or in front of it.
By Morpheus
IMO if the pipe is in front of the panel one or the other has to move, I would not want to work on a panel with a pipe in front of it.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Panelboard Location
IMHO if the pipe does not comprimise the space directly in front of the panel and there is 30 in.from the edge of the panel in the opposite direction of the pipe it is fine.I have always taken this measurment from either right edge of panel to the left or vise versa
IMHO if the pipe does not comprimise the space directly in front of the panel and there is 30 in.from the edge of the panel in the opposite direction of the pipe it is fine.I have always taken this measurment from either right edge of panel to the left or vise versa
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Panelboard Location
Just to add my 2 cents to this, I once failed an inspection on a 200 amp service upgrade for this very reason. The existing breaker panel somehow ended up between 2 gas lines (how this passed an original inspection is beyond me). All the branch circuits leaving this panel left from one side and were too short to extend to the opposite side where there was room to locate the new panel. So I installed the new breaker panel between the gas lines in place of the old one and it fit perfectly.
When I asked the inspector why he failed me he cited the 30" working space rule but I also asked what he would have done instead. His reply: He would have left the existing panel enclosure in place, removed all the breakers and buss bar, used the enclosure as a splice box for the existing branch circuits and installed the new breaker panel to the right where there was room ( A high quality installation ???).
Long story - short, I paid a plumber to move the gas lines - -a rather expensive remedy but.........you have to pay for your education ! A word of advice, make sure you can do what you're going to do before you do it !
Just to add my 2 cents to this, I once failed an inspection on a 200 amp service upgrade for this very reason. The existing breaker panel somehow ended up between 2 gas lines (how this passed an original inspection is beyond me). All the branch circuits leaving this panel left from one side and were too short to extend to the opposite side where there was room to locate the new panel. So I installed the new breaker panel between the gas lines in place of the old one and it fit perfectly.
When I asked the inspector why he failed me he cited the 30" working space rule but I also asked what he would have done instead. His reply: He would have left the existing panel enclosure in place, removed all the breakers and buss bar, used the enclosure as a splice box for the existing branch circuits and installed the new breaker panel to the right where there was room ( A high quality installation ???).
Long story - short, I paid a plumber to move the gas lines - -a rather expensive remedy but.........you have to pay for your education ! A word of advice, make sure you can do what you're going to do before you do it !
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