panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

[lidco2]

I have a client who has requested that our firm show electrical panelboards in the bedrooms of the apartments that are in design.

In 2002 The National Electrical Code implemented the requirement of arc fault circuit breakers for the protection of all 120 volt branch circuit wiring (outlets) within sleeping areas. Isn't the intent of the code is to provide an extra level of protection for branch circuit wiring within the sleeping areas, essentially creating a safety zone for occupants as they sleep.

The National Electrical Code does not explicitly prohibit the installation of electrical panels in sleeping areas (it does in bathrooms etc); however it is our opinion that it is the intent of the code the code that the panels should not be installed in these areas of the apartment.

Was this issue been raised during the 2005 NEC code forum? Can we expect to see this exclusion in the future?

 

[infinity]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

AFCI protection covers all outlets in a bedroom. A panleboard is not an outlet.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Interesting point.

The NEC also does not restrict wiring contained in walls or ceilings of a bedroom, yet the entire BC of a bedroom circuit must be AFCI protected.

This may have been discussed here before, I'm sure someone will point it out

 

[charlie]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

You are correct, many things about the AFCIs need to be addressed. I don't see why the 6 ft restriction for a metal raceway or a cable with a metallic sheath. Why not permit an unlimited length to the first receptacle outlet?

 

[tom baker]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

This is just the beginning of AFCI's. Look at the requirements now for GFCI's, the first application was in 1968.

 

[physis]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

I know there're a lot of paralells between AFI's and GFI's but for some reason I like GFI's. So they're ok.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Originally posted by physis:
I know there're a lot of paralells between AFI's and GFI's but for some reason I like GFI's. So they're ok.

I think since you can give GFI's cute names like "Jiffy" they are far more likeable.
As for the panel in the bedroom it is not prohibited and I am quite sure the intent was not to prohibit a panel in a bedroom. The whole AFCI deal is alledgedly to protect branch circuit wiring and cords. Neither of this pertains to panel location. But who am I to argue the intnet of the NEC.

 

[physis]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Jiffy's Scott. I've never heard that, I hope I don't start calling them that.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

GFCI = jiffy
AFCI = iffy

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Originally posted by aelectricalman:

AFCI = iffy

Nice!

 

[physis]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

That one I'm more inclined to like.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

so yesterday I was working in a bedroom when this "iffy" stopped wo.......................

Has a nice ring to it

 

[physis]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

So after I finished the trim out, I went around to the panel to energize the 15 new circuits I installed but only 6 of the IFFY's would stay on.

 

[pierre]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

The IFFY's that stay on are called NIFTY's, they are only IFFY if they do not stay on


The AFCI requirements and issue is now in it's infancy and beginning stage. I say that as the technology advances, and time goes on it is only inevitable that we will see an increase in it's requirements, and some future safety devices we have no idea about... yet.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

This trick always works. When an iffy decides not to work when you first turn them on, go into the attic and start shaking wires. Pull a tiny bit from the attic or crawl space on all of the affected wires. Im not sure what it does but by golly, it has worked for me on more than 2 occasions. Never had call backs either.

 

[physis]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

The AFCI requirements and issue is now in it's infancy and beginning stage.

Exactly why it should not be a requirement.

I'm all for volentary implimentation.

I'm completely opposed to manditory.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Well if it were voluntary would you do it? Would I do it? Would anyone do it? Its too much of a hassle to do if it were not mandated. They would not be able to impliment it if it were voluntary.

[ May 18, 2005, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: aelectricalman ]

 

[physis]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Chris, I understand where you're coming from.

The answer to question isn't "would I do it", it's would your customers do it? And that's precisely where the question belongs.

I have no problem recommending AFI's as I might any other product or construction method. But I would choose (because I'm so atruistic) to be honest about those products and methods that I might recommend. And the decision would not be made by the manufacturers of AFI devices and CMP 2.

It would be made by the people who should make the decision.

I wish I could use the NEC to peddle beta junk.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

What about a house that was roughed but HVAC didn`t install all the fart fans so we didn`t call a rough electric inspection till installed,tract home that slipped through the cracks.45 days later trim was requested and done but online system wouldn`t allow the girl in the office to schedule a final So now we have a home for the next year that has 22 afci breakers in the panel this should be fun

 

[mc5w]

Re: panelboards in sleeping areas - AFCI intent

Requiring all circuits to be AFCI would be too expensive and would take us right back to the days of 10 circuit fuse boxes.

Also, AFCI is not required for 240 volt baseboard heater in a bedroom yet that is very much a fire hazard. I can also have a 240 volt room air conditioner connected with cord and plug in a bedroom yet that is not required to be AFCI protected.

The current AFCIs only provide limited protection because they are supposed to ignore arcs that are less than 75 amps. A 20 amp arc can still start a fire.

What I read alsewhere is that AFCI is derived from a fancy substation relay that was alledged to be able to automatically detect downed power lines. Doggone things could not tell the difference between a downed line and a leaky insulator.