panels in poured concrete
- Thread starter m2oliva
- Start date
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jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: panels in poured concrete
OK
I'll reply. Forget about any contact with the cement, how would you make this installation?
Mike P.
OK
I'll reply. Forget about any contact with the cement, how would you make this installation?
Mike P.
Re: panels in poured concrete
I once installed many panels, pull boxes, terminal boxes, and outlet boxes, flush with the concrete wall finish on hydro-electric dams. Specifically the Bonneyville, and John Day, on the Columbia River, and the Iron Gate Dam on the Klamath River.
Standard panels were used. A lot of planning is required, for this type of installation. It would take too long to explain the entire process on this forum.
Specific issues can be easily addressed. Ask away.
I once installed many panels, pull boxes, terminal boxes, and outlet boxes, flush with the concrete wall finish on hydro-electric dams. Specifically the Bonneyville, and John Day, on the Columbia River, and the Iron Gate Dam on the Klamath River.
Standard panels were used. A lot of planning is required, for this type of installation. It would take too long to explain the entire process on this forum.
Specific issues can be easily addressed. Ask away.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: panels in poured concrete
If it's a flush box future scalability would be limited.
It might be better to come into a gutter in a niche. Make the niche oversized. Then attach the panel to the gutter.
Post back with more details and we can give you a better & safer answer.
It would have to be all piped.
If it's a flush box future scalability would be limited.
It might be better to come into a gutter in a niche. Make the niche oversized. Then attach the panel to the gutter.
Post back with more details and we can give you a better & safer answer.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: panels in poured concrete
Bennie, I would have answered that I have never seen an installation like this. I can see how it could be done but I don't know why you would ever want to do it. Now that you have answered, how would you replace a bad panelboard? Talk about painting yourself into a corner.
Bennie, I would have answered that I have never seen an installation like this. I can see how it could be done but I don't know why you would ever want to do it. Now that you have answered, how would you replace a bad panelboard? Talk about painting yourself into a corner.
Re: panels in poured concrete
Charlie: This method of concrete encased electrical systems is also used in some prison construction. The reason is for physical protection from damage.
On Hydro-plant dams the reason is the lighting and power panels can be pulled and energized as the dam progresses. Surface mounting would not last long with all the machines and equipment travelling through the corridors.
There is a tool for changing a defective panel, it is called a "jack hammer".
Charlie: This method of concrete encased electrical systems is also used in some prison construction. The reason is for physical protection from damage.
On Hydro-plant dams the reason is the lighting and power panels can be pulled and energized as the dam progresses. Surface mounting would not last long with all the machines and equipment travelling through the corridors.
There is a tool for changing a defective panel, it is called a "jack hammer".
G
Guest
Guest
Re: panels in poured concrete
I would hope that in prisons the panels are also otherwise secured.
Wouldn't a niche take care of the physical protection and provide for future scalability and access?
I would hope that in prisons the panels are also otherwise secured.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: panels in poured concrete
Charlie,
The original install is easy, but you need to remember to install internal bracing inside the tub to prevent the panel from being crushed by the wet concrete. The panel is set in place on a temporary support and the conduit is installed into the panel. Then the form on the open side of the panel is installed, the panel is secured to the form and the temporary supports are removed. Any holes that are to be used in the panel after the pour must be covered. It they are tapped holes you install a screw or bolt in the hole, put some grease on the exposed threads to prevent the concrete from sticking and also cover the area with duct tape. Make sure that all openings are covered before the pour!!
Don
[ October 03, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
Charlie,
You just replace the guts and the panel cover. The panel manufacturers will make custom covers and mounting hardware for this application.
The original install is easy, but you need to remember to install internal bracing inside the tub to prevent the panel from being crushed by the wet concrete. The panel is set in place on a temporary support and the conduit is installed into the panel. Then the form on the open side of the panel is installed, the panel is secured to the form and the temporary supports are removed. Any holes that are to be used in the panel after the pour must be covered. It they are tapped holes you install a screw or bolt in the hole, put some grease on the exposed threads to prevent the concrete from sticking and also cover the area with duct tape. Make sure that all openings are covered before the pour!!
Don
[ October 03, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: panels in poured concrete
I don't see why this would be different than a panel installed in a brick wall, very common around here in schools, hospitals, factories, large Churches.
The few times we have had to do replacements we called on a panel shop to come up with a suitable interior / cover combination after giving them all the dimensions.
I have never seen the tub go bad.
I did have to add a one inch conduit to one in a brick wall and the only way was chip out enough brick to expose some of the top of the panel, use a torch to notch the steel brick shelf and punch into the panel. Come down the wall and offset into the notch. Cement up the notch and it looks OK.
I don't see why this would be different than a panel installed in a brick wall, very common around here in schools, hospitals, factories, large Churches.
The few times we have had to do replacements we called on a panel shop to come up with a suitable interior / cover combination after giving them all the dimensions.
I have never seen the tub go bad.
I did have to add a one inch conduit to one in a brick wall and the only way was chip out enough brick to expose some of the top of the panel, use a torch to notch the steel brick shelf and punch into the panel. Come down the wall and offset into the notch. Cement up the notch and it looks OK.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: panels in poured concrete
Sorry Don, you where posting while I was typing.
Sorry Don, you where posting while I was typing.
Re: panels in poured concrete
On the dams, the metal forms, and rebar was in place before any conduit or panels were installed.
The area scheduled for concrete was about 12' wide by 30' long, with a depth of 12'.
The panels had to be bolted to the forms, by drilling holes through the metal form plate, and using all thread rods to pull the face of the panel tight against the form.
We sealed the panels with duct tape. Sealing is important due to the use of vibrators. Wood framing was installed on the interior of the can, to prevent crushing.
The entry conduits were stubbed out with nipples. By using ericsons we could then join the conduit runs to the panel.
Like I said, " accurate planning is the only way to do this type of work". All conduits had to be mandrelled at 80% of inside measurement.
On the dams, the metal forms, and rebar was in place before any conduit or panels were installed.
The area scheduled for concrete was about 12' wide by 30' long, with a depth of 12'.
The panels had to be bolted to the forms, by drilling holes through the metal form plate, and using all thread rods to pull the face of the panel tight against the form.
We sealed the panels with duct tape. Sealing is important due to the use of vibrators. Wood framing was installed on the interior of the can, to prevent crushing.
The entry conduits were stubbed out with nipples. By using ericsons we could then join the conduit runs to the panel.
Like I said, " accurate planning is the only way to do this type of work". All conduits had to be mandrelled at 80% of inside measurement.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: panels in poured concrete
Bennie, I thought you were crazy . . . HMMM . . . well, again I learned something. This still doesn't look like a good practice but I can sure see why it is sometimes needed. Thanks to all of you.
Bennie, I thought you were crazy . . . HMMM . . . well, again I learned something. This still doesn't look like a good practice but I can sure see why it is sometimes needed. Thanks to all of you.
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