Panels with Transformers
- Thread starter Sparky44
- Start date
- Status
kingpb
Senior Member
- Location
- SE USA as far as you can go
- Occupation
- Engineer, Registered
You will ned to expand on what you are trying to determine.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I agree that your question is a bit vague. I will say that there are panels that supply 480V loads and 277V loads, and that also contain (within the same enclosure) a step-down transformer to 208/120V, and that also have breakers serving 208V loads and 120V loads. They do exist. Are you asking about something in particular?
Alright, now I have several questions:
1
I am brand new (as you can tell) to this site and Forum(s).
You all need to watch Mike Holt’s little introduction again.
2.
I saw several sarcastic comments, starting w/yours, that I was surprised to see coming from supposedly professionals (not “Do-It-Yourselfers”). Most of what I read after your starting seemed to be on the level of “High School Students” in a ”Chat Room”.
I looked back thru this website and didn’t see anything about the minimum knowledge requirement. If I missed it, please direct me to the section.
I am not an Engineer. I am an Electrician trying to self educate and improve myself.
I thought educated people were helpful and wanted to share their knowledge.
Being new to this site I can’t find my way back to read again the 45 comments.
Please tell me how to do that so I can read those comments plus the additional comments that are now up to 63.
3.
Maybe I put my question in the wrong Forum.
Today is the first day I got the nerve to ask a question. You all certainly made me feel welcome, thanks.
I did not put my question in “Electrical Calculations/Engineering”, but I must have been in that Forum at the time.
Is there another Forum that I should have used like “didn’t go to college electrician”?
4.
This is a question to the Moderator(s):
Did I do something wrong?
If so, let me know now because I have several other “Stupid Questions” that I am dying to ask.
5.
I don’t know if this will go back to everyone, so if it doesn’t, can you send it on for me?
6.
Mr. Beck - To answer your question:
No, nothing in particular.
I am working on a project that has several of these panels and transformers in the basement level and I couldn’t find the Info on the Dwgs and was hoping that you all would give me some general Info of various situations that would answer my question.
They may be a change order add that utilized the existing 480/277 (I don’t know).
If you give me some options/questions/specifics I can check to see what the panel is or Info about the transformer.
Thanks for your time and help,
Sparky44
1
I am brand new (as you can tell) to this site and Forum(s).
You all need to watch Mike Holt’s little introduction again.
2.
I saw several sarcastic comments, starting w/yours, that I was surprised to see coming from supposedly professionals (not “Do-It-Yourselfers”). Most of what I read after your starting seemed to be on the level of “High School Students” in a ”Chat Room”.
I looked back thru this website and didn’t see anything about the minimum knowledge requirement. If I missed it, please direct me to the section.
I am not an Engineer. I am an Electrician trying to self educate and improve myself.
I thought educated people were helpful and wanted to share their knowledge.
Being new to this site I can’t find my way back to read again the 45 comments.
Please tell me how to do that so I can read those comments plus the additional comments that are now up to 63.
3.
Maybe I put my question in the wrong Forum.
Today is the first day I got the nerve to ask a question. You all certainly made me feel welcome, thanks.
I did not put my question in “Electrical Calculations/Engineering”, but I must have been in that Forum at the time.
Is there another Forum that I should have used like “didn’t go to college electrician”?
4.
This is a question to the Moderator(s):
Did I do something wrong?
If so, let me know now because I have several other “Stupid Questions” that I am dying to ask.
5.
I don’t know if this will go back to everyone, so if it doesn’t, can you send it on for me?
6.
Mr. Beck - To answer your question:
No, nothing in particular.
I am working on a project that has several of these panels and transformers in the basement level and I couldn’t find the Info on the Dwgs and was hoping that you all would give me some general Info of various situations that would answer my question.
They may be a change order add that utilized the existing 480/277 (I don’t know).
If you give me some options/questions/specifics I can check to see what the panel is or Info about the transformer.
Thanks for your time and help,
Sparky44
- Location
- Massachusetts
I am not going to go into all of your questions.
I will say given the large use of transformers in our trade your question is tough to answer.
In the buildings I work in the most common use of a transformer is to convert 480 volt 3 phase delta to 208Y/120 Wye.
The reason for the transformer is that the building was large enough that using a 480Y/277 Service made sense.
The 480 volt is used to run large loads like air conditioning etc.
277 Volt used for much of the lighting, but now people will still need to have 120 volt receptacles around so a transformer is necessary.
For reason we can go into if you want, it is often cheaper to move large quantities of electricity at higher voltages and convert back down closer to the point of use
I will say given the large use of transformers in our trade your question is tough to answer.
In the buildings I work in the most common use of a transformer is to convert 480 volt 3 phase delta to 208Y/120 Wye.
The reason for the transformer is that the building was large enough that using a 480Y/277 Service made sense.
The 480 volt is used to run large loads like air conditioning etc.
277 Volt used for much of the lighting, but now people will still need to have 120 volt receptacles around so a transformer is necessary.
For reason we can go into if you want, it is often cheaper to move large quantities of electricity at higher voltages and convert back down closer to the point of use
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Just one thing. You didn't give us enough information in your question for us to understand what you were trying to ask.Sparky44 said:
Now one request. Lighten up a bit. Please don't blast away at the people who are trying to help.
Go ahead and ask your other questions. Newcomers to the industry are certainly welcome in this forum. But please don't assume we can read your mind.
If I am to understand the poster's question he's refering to a dry type distribution transformer combined with a panelboard all in one enclosure. Bring 480v 3ph in one end and the panelboard provides 208y/120.
Westinghouse started it with its "mini powercenter." SqD sent its panelboard interiors to Westinghouse (W) to be installed with the Westinghouse transformer and namebranded SqD. So SqD marketed their own with their panels and a (W) XFMR.
Due to some difficulties with (w) supplying SqD's requirements SqD made their own in the mid to late '80s.
It makes for an easy and compact installation.
Westinghouse started it with its "mini powercenter." SqD sent its panelboard interiors to Westinghouse (W) to be installed with the Westinghouse transformer and namebranded SqD. So SqD marketed their own with their panels and a (W) XFMR.
Due to some difficulties with (w) supplying SqD's requirements SqD made their own in the mid to late '80s.
It makes for an easy and compact installation.
Sparky44 said:
You have the right idea, but the ones that I have installed are single phase 480X240/120.
They are a little pricey, but very handy when you need 120 volts at a remote site for tools, instruments or lights.
The xfmrs on the ones that I have used are 5kva.
Afaik, SqD is now the only mfr who offers these....but I dont know everything....I am married.
Thanks for your responses.
I got a bit “miffed” when I was called a “DIY” by a “Senior Member” who is also a “Chief Moderator”.
Maybe I wasn’t supposed to see that portion (“whats up with the infux of DIY questions ??????”.) Then the “Chat Room” started w/Tall Girl. I fell over it looking at his other “Posts”.
Maybe my question is “elementary” to an Engineer, but not all of us have gone to college and not all of us see every portion of the electrical system in our work.
I’ve done mostly Government building renovation for 30 years and usually the panels (along w/the medium & high voltage Swgr) are existing.
Thanks again,
Sparky44
I got a bit “miffed” when I was called a “DIY” by a “Senior Member” who is also a “Chief Moderator”.
Maybe I wasn’t supposed to see that portion (“whats up with the infux of DIY questions ??????”.) Then the “Chat Room” started w/Tall Girl. I fell over it looking at his other “Posts”.
Maybe my question is “elementary” to an Engineer, but not all of us have gone to college and not all of us see every portion of the electrical system in our work.
I’ve done mostly Government building renovation for 30 years and usually the panels (along w/the medium & high voltage Swgr) are existing.
Thanks again,
Sparky44
Here's a brochure on the C-H Mini Powercenter:
http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/cms1/B36F01SE.PDF
http://www.eatonelectrical.com/unsecure/cms1/B36F01SE.PDF
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Sparky, I second Charlie's request. Lighten up.charlie b said:
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
For what it is worth, Square D now has (I know they aren't the first) an IPC, Integrated Power Center, that combbines a 480/277V panel, a step down transformer, and a 208Y/120 panel all in a single enclosure. So, Sparky44 you can see how easy it is to be confused by your simple question. Don't be afraid to provide specifics.
- Status