Parking lot pole lights

[fbhwt]

I know, just what everyone wants to see, more pole light questions, I did a search and tried to find my answer. I have poles with ground rods, I have circuits with EGC's, the GEC is attached to the bolt at the hand hole,the EGC is attached the green wire that is bonded to the light fixture, the light fixture is attached to the pole. My question is, do I need to bond my EGC to the GEC? (I know that the ground rods are not required)

 

[JohnJ0906]

410.15(B)(1 through 6)

Look especially at (5)

You didn't post the specifics of the pole, so I don't know if any of the exceptions apply.

 

[jamesguy10]

Well, your egc should connect to the pole, and your gec should connect to the pole. So they are inadvertently bonded

 

[fbhwt]

What specifics are you looking for?

 

[fbhwt]

I know, just what everyone wants to see, more pole light questions, I did a search and tried to find my answer. I have poles with ground rods, I have circuits with EGC's, the GEC is attached to the bolt at the hand hole,the EGC is attached the green wire that is bonded to the light fixture, the light fixture is attached to the pole. My question is, do I need to bond my EGC to the GEC? (I know that the ground rods are not required)

Jamesguy as I said in my OP "the GEC is attached and the EGC is attached to the metal pole, so yes they are inadvertently bonded, I'm being told that I need to attach the EGC and the GEC at the hand hole.

 

[infinity]

The ground rods are supplementary electrodes and aren't required to be connected to anything. I agree that in the arrangement that you've described they're already connected together.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The ground rods are supplementary electrodes and aren't required to be connected to anything. I agree that in the arrangement that you've described they're already connected together.

I would take a look at 250.54.

250.54 Supplementary Grounding Electrodes.

The last sentence is what basically tells you to bond the GEC to the EGC.

 

[iwire]

The last sentence is what basically tells you to bond the GEC to the EGC.

It allows us to, but it does not require us to. :smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Bob
I believe the first sentence permits (allows) us to bond the GEC to the EGC. The last sentence tells us that the GEC is to be bonded to the EGC to keep the GEC in the Effective ground fault current path, so the earth will not be the only ground path.

 

[fbhwt]

Ok everyone, I'm trying to understand, I have a metal pole, ground rod driven next to pole base, #6 solid copper GEC attached to pole at hand hole bolt provided by manufacturer, I have EGC coming from source which is attached to green wire at light fixture at top of pole. I believe the two are connected together by way of the pole, is it necessary to connect the two together at the hand hole at the bottom of the pole?

 

[infinity]

I believe the two are connected together by way of the pole, is it necessary to connect the two together at the hand hole at the bottom of the pole?

I would say no, they're already mechanically connected together. The article Pierre posted explains that they are permitted to be connected together but as Bob said this isn't required.

 

[fbhwt]

Thank you all.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am holding my stance here.
The supplementary ground rod is not required to be connected to the system (building) grounding electrode system.
Because of the last sentence in 250.54, it either has to be bonded to the electrode system of 250.50 or it has to be bonded to the equipment grounding conductor. Since it would be difficult to bond the ground rod at the pole to the grounding electrode system, it will be bonded to the EGC.
In bonding to the EGC, if the EGC is bonded to the pole and the ground rod is bonded to the pole, they essentially are bonded together.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

410.15(B)(5) requires that the EGC be bonded to the pole. If the green wire goes to the fixture head and is not directly bonded to the pole, you have a code violation.
Don

 

[fbhwt]

410.15(B)(5) requires that the EGC be bonded to the pole. If the green wire goes to the fixture head and is not directly bonded to the pole, you have a code violation.
Don

The green fixture wire is bonded to the fixture, the fixture is bolted to the pole, they are mechaniclly bonded together.

 

[mdshunk]

I believe the two are connected together by way of the pole, is it necessary to connect the two together at the hand hole at the bottom of the pole?

Yes, probably good enough to trip the OCPD should the need arise, but I wouldn't call it a good bond. Don't know what kinds of heads you're deailing with, but some have a gasket or a plastic sliver between the head and the pole. At least you have a painted thing bolted up against a painted thing, so the only bond is the bolt heads inside the fixture to the nut inside the top of the pole. When I've done this sort of arrangement, I let the GEC go through the lug in the handhole, and run it long out the other side of the lug a few inches. Tap the ECG and the fixture's bond wire to this tail sticking out of the lug. I think ground rods for poles is retarded anyhow, but they still show up on detail prints all the time.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Yes, probably good enough to trip the OCPD should the need arise, but I wouldn't call it a good bond. Don't know what kinds of heads you're deailing with, but some have a gasket or a plastic sliver between the head and the pole. At least you have a painted thing bolted up against a painted thing, so the only bond is the bolt heads inside the fixture to the nut inside the top of the pole. When I've done this sort of arrangement, I let the GEC go through the lug in the handhole, and run it long out the other side of the lug a few inches. Tap the ECG and the fixture's bond wire to this tail sticking out of the lug. I think ground rods for poles is retarded anyhow, but they still show up on detail prints all the time.

That is probably the most common method that I see for this type of installation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The green fixture wire is bonded to the fixture, the fixture is bolted to the pole, they are mechaniclly bonded together.

That does not meet the requirements of the code rule.
Don

 

[fbhwt]

Yes, probably good enough to trip the OCPD should the need arise, but I wouldn't call it a good bond. Don't know what kinds of heads you're deailing with, but some have a gasket or a plastic sliver between the head and the pole. At least you have a painted thing bolted up against a painted thing, so the only bond is the bolt heads inside the fixture to the nut inside the top of the pole. When I've done this sort of arrangement, I let the GEC go through the lug in the handhole, and run it long out the other side of the lug a few inches. Tap the ECG and the fixture's bond wire to this tail sticking out of the lug. I think ground rods for poles is retarded anyhow, but they still show up on detail prints all the time.

The fixture is bolted to the pole by way of say two 12" pieces of allthread that go through a 6"-8" arm, at the end of the allthread are a nut and washer,the washer is made so that when compressed it bites into the metal of the pole. At the hand hole on this pole there is a bolt and washer for the EGC or GEC. What I will do is attach the GEC to the bolt, leave it long enough to attach my EGC to the pigtail of the GEC.

 

[iwire]

fbhwt

Let me ask you something.

When you install a surface mounted ceiling fixture on a metal box do you,

Ground the box and the the light fixture?

or

Do you just ground the light fixture and rely on just the fixture mounting screws to ground the box?

Now which are people more likely to come into contact with, a recessed metal ceiling box or a site pole?

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Do it right and connect the EGC directly to the lighting pole at the ground lug in the hand hole as required and continue it to the light fixtures green wire.

By the way 250.148(B) requires that the grounding be maintained even with the removal of a device or luminaire and 250.148.(C) requires it done with a means that serves no other purpose.