PASSING OF THE BATON - Who Do We Pass It Too ?

[mtnelect]

I have been on this forum since 2003. I see a few energetic people ready to step up to the plate.
But we are missing a lot of new potential trades people.
I am thinking on contacting my IBEW Local 11 to see what I can do.
Like going to my local school district to resurrect High School shop classes.
Sometime this month I will go to the school district and express my concerns.
I will let you know my progress.

 

[infinity]

There's a shortage of skilled construction workers in this country due to high schools looking to get as many of their students accepted into a college and not attending a trade school. Seems like they're more concerned about bragging rights to say "we got 97% of our graduating seniors into a college" and not sending them in a direction that is more suited for their success.

When my brother was in his junior year of high school his guidance counselor asked him which colleges he was going to apply to. When he told them he wasn't going to college and that he was going to follow his father and grandfather into the IBEW the GC called our parents to the school for a meeting to discuss why he would choose a trade over college.

 

[petersonra]

When my brother was in his junior year of high school his guidance counselor asked him which colleges he was going to apply to. When he told them he wasn't going to college and that he was going to follow his father and grandfather into the IBEW the GC called our parents to the school for a meeting to discuss why he would choose a trade over college.

What is wrong with the GC doing his job and making sure that everyone involved understands the possibilities and consequences of their choices.

There was a time in the not too distant past when being in the trades meant working 3 or 4 months of the year and being on layoff the rest of the time.

 

[Hv&Lv]

At a school board meeting, teachers were discussing students and their education..
A couple of teachers remarked that most, if not all their students were going to college to be lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc..
An old shop teacher said his students would be fixing the other students electricity, appliances, and be building their homes. All without the massive student debt, and making close, if not more to the same money as the lawyers and doctors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What is wrong with the GC doing his job and making sure that everyone involved understands the possibilities and consequences of their choices.

There was a time in the not too distant past when being in the trades meant working 3 or 4 months of the year and being on layoff the rest of the time.

Because it would be a very rare GC who had any idea of the possibilities and/or consequences of going to an union apprentiship.

 

[petersonra]

Because it would be a very rare GC who had any idea of the possibilities and/or consequences of going to an union apprentiship.

What makes you think that? He might well have understood that taking such a career path might well end up with the student being unemployed more than he is employed. And that has been an ongoing issue with the trades as long as I can remember. It is much less of a problem these days, but in the past, big problem.

 

[hbiss]

What is wrong with the GC doing his job and making sure that everyone involved understands the possibilities and consequences of their choices.

It's a little more sinister than that. Schools are ranked by the number of students that go on to college. The higher the ranking the more aid they get.

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

It's a little more sinister than that. Schools are ranked by the number of students that go on to college. The higher the ranking the more aid they get.

-Hal

Do you have some evidence to support that contention? Most states the amount of aid a school district gets is based solely on how many student-days of instruction are provided. poor areas often get a little more than more well to do areas, but I have never heard of any of it being based on college acceptance rates.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What makes you think that? He might well have understood that taking such a career path might well end up with the student being unemployed more than he is employed. And that has been an ongoing issue with the trades as long as I can remember. It is much less of a problem these days, but in the past, big problem.

Because I have never met one that had any idea of how the union trades work, and as far as working, that was never a real problem for a quality worker. Forty plus years and never any time off other than what I wanted to take off.

They are taught to send people to college, if they send someone to the trades, that person is typically not a person who can even make it in the trades. If you can't successfully complete a junior college program, you can't successfully complete our apprentice program.

 

[__dan]

I made a full strong union application about age 21 or 22, with the license and some university EE. They did not take me in. My father, who I had grown up in his business, told exactly the same story. When he was young he went to the union and they did not take him in. My life would have been quite different if they had. I approached them again much later to see if they were interested but there was no interest in me.

I believe the problem may have been I already had the license and they like to take in green people and give them the apprenticeship, but they did not say anything why. The comment about going to a union apprenticeship and going into the union could be two different things. I tried to go in at a very young age but with already extensive experience and formal training.

Open shop I do not recommend and the way we get treated goes from bad to worse. Seeing younger senior guys meaning very pro guys 35 to 45 ish, were basically foaming at the mouth. The pay does not or barely covers the rent and phone bill but not all the rest of it, which there is quite a bit beyond that, one works for.

Anyone asks me about electrical for a career I always say do the two year CC minimum, study something good like programming, networking, and they will be making more money easier and always in demand, compared to electrical construction and being treated like prison labor (as much as I enjoy the activity, they treat me too like prison labor).

The GC even not knowing what awaits in the trades, is well advised to advise CC or university first.

Of course if you are already on track for prison or coming back from there, a career in the trades is very well advised.

 

[brantmacga]

I have offered all of my resources to the HS I graduated from to restart the electrical program that got me here. Started talking to them about 4/yrs ago, they said they couldn't do it, then COVID happened and they blamed it on that, now the only teacher that was remotely interested/capable of managing a program like that left teaching altogether.

 

[mtnelect]

Just because you are a union inside wireman doesn't mean you completed an apprenticeship. Organizing is a major part of union activities by getting nonunion contractors to join. And the incentive to make the contractor's electricians inside journeyman wireman automatically without going through an apprenticeship.

 

[MasonF]

I went to high school in a town with a well known liberal arts college that had a heavy influence on the high school. When i said i was going to community college to study electricity i was informed by the staff that it was a failure of a choice to make. I thought about being a lawyer or a doctor but realized I had to be out working with my hands. Long story short Ive got a master license and love what I do plus i dont have years upon years of student loan debt to pay. I wish more young people would see through the misguided mentality of trades being bad.

 

[Ken_S]

My perspective on the subject:

There is still very much a stigma that the trades are a dead end career

Most schools in my state have nixed shop class all together so kids never even get a chance to use their hands

Where I work the college educated bunch decide how much the non college educated trades jobs are going to make...and it shows

The vocational schools were once a dumping ground, a stigma that still persists

In my area most work is residential, and you're not going to make a living in my area working for a residential contractor, and you certainly won't have medical benefits.

There's a lack of awareness of what trades jobs are really about

And lastly, there a far more college degree high paying jobs then high paying trade jobs.

 

[jmellc]

For a time, I thought most of the younger ones coming in were young punks, and many of them were for some reason. A few others were too pampered to deal with the work environment. But I have seen a lot of guys under 30 the past 5 years that had a super work ethic and good attitudes. I breather easier in that regard. But their generation isn't going to wait forever to get ahead. They are starting out in a far more unstable world than we were in. Prices for everything are much higher, inflation is worse, more "stuff" is required now to manage your affairs. They will not tolerate the "carrot and stick" for long. Many saw their parents get shafted after dedicating years to their companies and they aren't easily placated.

 

[jmellc]

My perspective on the subject:

There is still very much a stigma that the trades are a dead end career

Most schools in my state have nixed shop class all together so kids never even get a chance to use their hands

Where I work the college educated bunch decide how much the non college educated trades jobs are going to make...and it shows

The vocational schools were once a dumping ground, a stigma that still persists

In my area most work is residential, and you're not going to make a living in my area working for a residential contractor, and you certainly won't have medical benefits.

There's a lack of awareness of what trades jobs are really about

And lastly, there a far more college degree high paying jobs then high paying trade jobs.

A lot of truth in every point. I urge every young person I know to start now on their retirement planning and emergency funds. Climbing ladders is no issue in our 20's but is much harder in our 60's. Those who can learn to supervise and direct have a real advantage. Those who must swing tools do need to be ready for early retirement if it becomes necessary. And they have less income to do it with.

Along with point 4, that crowd also dictates salaries and benefits of clerical people in corporate offices and holds it over their heads as well. I recall my office days. I overheard our supervisor tell her assistant she had been given $2,500 budget for raises in our unit of 9 people. She could allocate it any way she chose. 1 or 2 could get a decent raise and everyone else get nothing or all could get a few bones and all be angry. Another reason I'd like to see more people save and do 2nd jobs too, to have more cushion. I'd love to have seen our entire unit all give notice at once. I'm pretty sure that has never happened but what a sight it would be.

 

[letgomywago]

For a time, I thought most of the younger ones coming in were young punks, and many of them were for some reason. A few others were too pampered to deal with the work environment. But I have seen a lot of guys under 30 the past 5 years that had a super work ethic and good attitudes. I breather easier in that regard. But their generation isn't going to wait forever to get ahead. They are starting out in a far more unstable world than we were in. Prices for everything are much higher, inflation is worse, more "stuff" is required now to manage your affairs. They will not tolerate the "carrot and stick" for long. Many saw their parents get shafted after dedicating years to their companies and they aren't easily placated.

I'm one of those who grew up in this younger generation y group who climbed up fast. There are others I've noticed who as a kid went through the last big recession and so don't hold to the idea that a company will support you through thick and thin I think that may have pushed through a few go getters. That being said I've seen alot of people I grew up with never really grow up and just do college and go home to video games. I don't understand this but the slightly younger ones who were small or born durring that time period don't even want driver licenses or to finish growing up let alone get any usefull certification of any type for work.

 

[jmellc]

I'm one of those who grew up in this younger generation y group who climbed up fast. There are others I've noticed who as a kid went through the last big recession and so don't hold to the idea that a company will support you through thick and thin I think that may have pushed through a few go getters. That being said I've seen alot of people I grew up with never really grow up and just do college and go home to video games. I don't understand this but the slightly younger ones who were small or born durring that time period don't even want driver licenses or to finish growing up let alone get any usefull certification of any type for work.

Yes, you make a good point. When I had my business, my daughter had a friend that approached me for work. I didn't have anything to offer for a while. Then a prospective job came along. I called her to see if she could help with it. Left her voice mails 4-5 times. Told my daughter about it. She said "oh, she doesn't check her messages, she never does". I hope she grew out of that. Daughter went through some of that stuff herself. Got fired from a couple of good jobs for stupid stuff. She's now 26 and working hard but struggling a lot too. She regrets wasting time and energy like she did and is struggling to catch up. She is caught in the trap of high rents, high gas prices, still stagnant wages, etc. But I worked with a few guys her age that were a pleasure to work with.