PE engineer submit responsibility form to AHJ

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fandi

Senior Member
Location
Los Angeles
Hello,
A general question: If an electrical room can't meet working clearance distances per Table 110.26(A)(1). The Electrical engineer have tried but the distances are 1-2 inches short and he can only make one egress and the working space is not doubled for example, etc). Can he submit to his AHJ a form and state to accept any responsibility? Does AHJ even have to accept the form?
Thank you.
 
In WA you can submit a variance form and pay the fee, you are basically paying for a no.
If you have to have double working space and don’t I don’t see how an AHJ would waive that.
You can ask the AHJ
 
I'd say no, and since you're in CA I'd be looking at the Business and Professions Code. Specifically:

6701. “Professional engineer,” within the meaning and intent of this act, refers to a person engaged in the professional practice of rendering service or creative work requiring education, training and experience in engineering sciences and the application of special knowledge of the mathematical, physical and engineering sciences in such professional or creative work as consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning or design of public or private utilities, structures, machines, processes, circuits, buildings, equipment or projects, and supervision of construction for the purpose of securing compliance with specifications and design for any such work.

6703. The phrase “responsible charge of work” means the independent control and direction, by the use of initiative, skill, and independent judgment, of the investigation or design of professional engineering work or the direct engineering control of such projects. The phrase does not refer to the concept of financial liability.

There are probably Health & Safety Code violations there, then there's building code:

[A] 114.1 Unlawful Acts
It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to erect, construct, alter, extend, repair, move, remove, demolish or occupy any building, structure or equipment regulated by this code, or cause same to be done, in conflict with or in violation of any of the provisions of this code.
 
Joe.B said:
[A] 114.1 Unlawful Acts
It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to erect, construct, alter, extend, repair, move, remove, demolish or occupy any building, structure or equipment regulated by this code, or cause same to be done, in conflict with or in violation of any of the provisions of this code.
Click to expand...
Since the code specifically gives the AHJ the authority to grant waivers, if a waiver is granted then it's in compliance with the code.

I can't see any AHJ granting this type of waiver though. I think someone's going to have to figure out how to make more space. Is the ceiling high enough to put in a mezzanine?

Is it possible to break the equipment up into multiple pieces so it's not considered a piece of large equipment?
 
I once had a clearance issue to an 8 inch ductile iron water pipe that needed to be 42 inches, but I put an insulating cover on the water pipe and reduced it to 36 inches.
 
fandi said:
Hello,
A general question: If an electrical room can't meet working clearance distances per Table 110.26(A)(1). The Electrical engineer have tried but the distances are 1-2 inches short and he can only make one egress and the working space is not doubled for example, etc). Can he submit to his AHJ a form and state to accept any responsibility? Does AHJ even have to accept the form?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
So it appears you want your PE to say the distances in the NEC can be ignored simply because the architect doesn't want to accommodate them, or the cost of meeting NEC requirements is not justified by the safety it provides.
 
There was an electrical room in s basement of a golf course that only had one exit and the gear was 1200 amp main breaker. The solution was to install 1100 amp main breaker, UL came in and recertified the gear to cost of several thousand dollars. This was several years ago and the codes have changed since then.
 
There are lots of things in the code where I think a engineer could write a paper contending that equivalent methods of protecting personnel and equipment have been provided. But I don't know how an engineer is more qualified than a lay person to judge that working space is adequate. It seems like in this case the appeal to the AHJ is "We're literally an inch short of the rule, can you let us slide? We're trying our best." Which if I were the AHJ, whatever I'd think of that, it would not really be influenced by whether the person asking had an engineer's credential.
 
Speaking only for myself, I will not seal anything that I know is in violation of code. I have been asked a few times and I have refused. As for writing a paper to justify a code violation and sealing it, there is no way I would risk my license and financial liability by doing that.
 
ggunn said:
Speaking only for myself, I will not seal anything that I know is in violation of code. I have been asked a few times and I have refused. As for writing a paper to justify a code violation and sealing it, there is no way I would risk my license and financial liability by doing that.
Click to expand...
I don't think you would be at risk of your license or financial liability if you asked for a waiver of the code where you were not suggesting something that was unsafe inherently.

If it was just a matter of an inch or two of clearance, you might be able to fix that by making the walls thinner. I don't see how you can get past the requirement to have two means of egress if there's no place to put the second door that meets the code requirements.
 
petersonra said:
I don't think you would be at risk of your license or financial liability if you asked for a waiver of the code where you were not suggesting something that was unsafe inherently.
Click to expand...
But then I would have to make the decision on whether the deviation from code would be safe or not. I do not want to take on that responsibility.
 
At one time, my project management tried to pressure me to seal a client preference by noting that the company had an indemnity policy for professional employees and would defend us and pay any fines we might incur. I said I was aware of that, but would they do jail time for me as well.

Similarly, a different manager said he could have me replaced, I still said, "No". He said that's all he needed to hear and told the client, "No". The client threatened to have him replaced. He still said, "No". The client said, "OK".
 
rbalex said:
At one time, my project management tried to pressure me to seal a client preference by noting that the company had an indemnity policy for professional employees and would defend us and pay any fines we might incur. I said I was aware of that, but would they do jail time for me as well.

Similarly, a different manager said he could have me replaced, I still said, "No". He said that's all he needed to hear and told the client, "No". The client threatened to have him replaced. He still said, "No". The client said, "OK".
Click to expand...
I once had an office manager ask me to give him access to my computer so that he could apply my PE stamp to documents while I was on vacation. Not just "No" but "Hell, no."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top