Peninsular Countertop Receptacle

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Capital

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210.52 (5) Exception to (5)

I inspected an installation that had receptacles below a countertop. The countertop exceeded 6" (bar type)and the receptacles are more than 12" below the countertop. There is a receptacle that does comply at the end of the peninsular.

I contacted the DCA and was told as long as (1) receptacle complies then the other receptacles are acceptable.

May you put receptacles under a countertop that extends more than 6"?
 
IMO if one receptacle complies with the "island/peninsula 6"/12" countertop requirements" then you are OK to have additional receptacle on the walls of the island/peninsula.
 
Capital said:
210.52 (5) Exception to (5)

I inspected an installation that had receptacles below a countertop. The countertop exceeded 6" (bar type)and the receptacles are more than 12" below the countertop. There is a receptacle that does comply at the end of the peninsular.

I contacted the DCA and was told as long as (1) receptacle complies then the other receptacles are acceptable.

May you put receptacles under a countertop that extends more than 6"?
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Yes, the code requires the ones in 210.52 however it does not state the others cannot be installed there but rather that they would not satisfy code for the req. ones.

Same is true in bathroom. I can install a receptacle in the cabinet but that will not satisfy the require outlets to serve the countertop. So as long as I have complied with the NEC the others are just extra.

Think of it similar to this situation-- I install 2 receptacles 12' apart-- if I install one closer than 12'- between the two- wouldn't that comply with the intent of the NEC.

The only issue you may have is the back side of an island or peninsula was in the living area then, IMO the circuit that feeds the small appliance branch circuit cannot be installed on the back side.

Now the question that begs to be answered is whether or not those extra receptacles need afci protection if they are not in the kitchen but rather face the dinning area
 
Dennis Alwon said:
.......

Now the question that begs to be answered is whether or not those extra receptacles need afci protection if they are not in the kitchen but rather face the dinning area
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It may depend on AHJ but I think it does require AFCI based on 2011.
 
edward said:
IMO if one receptacle complies with the "island/peninsula 6"/12" countertop requirements" then you are OK to have additional receptacle on the walls of the island/peninsula.
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Dennis Alwon said:
Yes, the code requires the ones in 210.52 however it does not state the others cannot be installed there but rather that they would not satisfy code for the req. ones.
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I don?t think it is quite as clean and simple as that. I submit that any and all receptacles that serve a peninsula or island countertop from below must meet the 6?/12? rule. The whole thing turns on the question of whether any of (what you are calling) the ?extra? receptacles are, or are not, intended to serve the countertop. I believe you can install one receptacle to serve the countertop, and put it within the 6?/12? spacing, and then install another receptacle closer to the floor, with that other one intended to be used by a vacuum cleaner.

Look at the wording of 210.52(C), specifically the sentence before sub-paragraph (1). It says that receptacles for countertop spaces shall comply with (1) through (5). It does not say that any and all receptacles that are attached to the wall, peninsula, or island shall comply, just the ones that serve the countertop. Sub-paragraph (5) brings the 6?/12? rule into play, and it does not give us any exceptions to that rule for any ?extra receptacles.? So if there is more than one receptacle on a peninsula that serves the countertop, it must meet the 6?/12? rule.

I cannot tell from the OP?s description whether the extra receptacles that are more than 12? below an overhang of 6? are there to serve the countertop. This would be a difficult call to make, even if I could see a photo of the installation. What is the intent of those extra receptacles? Are they far enough below the countertop to make it clear that they are not intended to serve the countertop?

My opinion is that if a receptacle is to be installed below an overhang that exceeds 6?, then that receptacle must be installed close to the floor level. I believe that 18? off the floor is the customary height for such things.
 
I agree with Dennis on this. The room the extra lower recept serves is defined in 210.52(B)(1). The recepts rendered not readily accessible in 210.52( C ) (5) should not be part of the App circuits as well. They are not considered required outlets as they are not within the scope of 210.52(B)(2) no other outlets.
 
charlie b said:

I don?t think it is quite as clean and simple as that. I submit that any and all receptacles that serve a peninsula or island countertop from below must meet the 6?/12? rule. The whole thing turns on the question of whether any of (what you are calling) the ?extra? receptacles are, or are not, intended to serve the countertop. I believe you can install one receptacle to serve the countertop, and put it within the 6?/12? spacing, and then install another receptacle closer to the floor, with that other one intended to be used by a vacuum cleaner.

Look at the wording of 210.52(C), specifically the sentence before sub-paragraph (1). It says that receptacles for countertop spaces shall comply with (1) through (5). It does not say that any and all receptacles that are attached to the wall, peninsula, or island shall comply, just the ones that serve the countertop. Sub-paragraph (5) brings the 6?/12? rule into play, and it does not give us any exceptions to that rule for any ?extra receptacles.? So if there is more than one receptacle on a peninsula that serves the countertop, it must meet the 6?/12? rule.

I cannot tell from the OP?s description whether the extra receptacles that are more than 12? below an overhang of 6? are there to serve the countertop. This would be a difficult call to make, even if I could see a photo of the installation. What is the intent of those extra receptacles? Are they far enough below the countertop to make it clear that they are not intended to serve the countertop?

My opinion is that if a receptacle is to be installed below an overhang that exceeds 6?, then that receptacle must be installed close to the floor level. I believe that 18? off the floor is the customary height for such things.
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I agree and I believe it is what I said originally.

However, IMO if the 6"&12" rule are satisfied then the other receptacles that are installed on the walls of the peninsula/island and are NOT part of the SABC can go at any height. But the height issue may be a design issue and a decision issue based on AHJ.
 
Edward, you and I are not quite in agreement on this issue. We do agree that you can have more receptacles than just the one that is required. The difference is that you would allow them at any height, and I would not allow them to be so close to the countertop that they are clearly intended to serve the countertop. The NEC does not give me a distance that I can point to, but it does clearly say that the 6"/12" rule applies to any and all receptacles that serve the countertop.
 
Capital said:
210.52 (5) Exception to (5)

I inspected an installation that had receptacles below a countertop. The countertop exceeded 6" (bar type)and the receptacles are more than 12" below the countertop. There is a receptacle that does comply at the end of the peninsular.

I contacted the DCA and was told as long as (1) receptacle complies then the other receptacles are acceptable.

May you put receptacles under a countertop that extends more than 6"?
Click to expand...

What circuit are these other rec. outlets on?
What space is the counter dividing?
If the installer provide ground fault protection for these outlets that may be an indication that they intended for these rec. to be servicing the counter.
 
charlie b said:
Edward, you and I are not quite in agreement on this issue. We do agree that you can have more receptacles than just the one that is required. The difference is that you would allow them at any height, and I would not allow them to be so close to the countertop that they are clearly intended to serve the countertop. The NEC does not give me a distance that I can point to, but it does clearly say that the 6"/12" rule applies to any and all receptacles that serve the countertop.
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Respectfully, if you were the AHJ will you fail the inspection if I have satisfied the 6"&12" rule but have other receptacles on none SBAC and are installed 14" below the counter?

IMO and as I stated earlier it will be a AHJ call and again there is no NEC point to cite except 90.3
 
edward said:
Respectfully, if you were the AHJ will you fail the inspection if I have satisfied the 6"&12" rule but have other receptacles on none SBAC and are installed 14" below the counter?

IMO and as I stated earlier it will be a AHJ call and again there is no NEC point to cite except 90.3
Click to expand...

I guess the whole point for that requirement is to keep the appliance form getting to close to the edge of the counter. As an electrician I would discourage the practice of a rec. placement that would encourage the appliance from getting to close to the edge.

As an inspector I would reason with you as to what you felt where any concerns or not. If that didn?t work I might listen to hear if the property owner had any understanding as to what the rule was trying to accomplish.

Before i would approve it i want to make sure the danger that i perceived was there was understood .
 
infinity said:
Does the really NEC limit where "extra" receptacles can be installed?
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Not really but the discussion here need clarification.

There are a few issues here

1) If the counter is truly an island in the middle of the kitchen

2) Is the island a divider between two rooms

3) Is the room the island divides a Kitchen and a dining room or

4) Is the room the island divides a Kitchen & Living Area(non small appliance branch circuit area)
 
1) If the island is in the middle of the kitchen then IMO there is no issue at all for adding receptacles around the island as long as one or 2 if req. meet the requirements of an island

3) If the island divides two rooms and one room is a dining area then IMO the install is fine

4) If the island divides 2 rooms and one is a living area then the receptacles on the back side would have to be on a non small appliance branch circuit. Given they are on a small appliance branch circuit then imo they, IMO arguably can be located anywhere on the back side as long as it does not fall in the space afforded by the rules for the countertop.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Not really but the discussion here need clarification.

There are a few issues here

1) If the counter is truly an island in the middle of the kitchen

2) Is the island a divider between two rooms

3) Is the room the island divides a Kitchen and a dining room or

4) Is the room the island divides a Kitchen & Living Area(non small appliance branch circuit area)
Click to expand...

I agree and this thread is moving beyond the question in the OP. Regarding that question I agree with the information that he received from the NJ DCA, install one compliant receptacle and any others that you want as long as the other ones comply with any additional code requirements.

Capital said:
I inspected an installation that had receptacles below a countertop. The countertop exceeded 6" (bar type)and the receptacles are more than 12" below the countertop. There is a receptacle that does comply at the end of the peninsular.

I contacted the DCA and was told as long as (1) receptacle complies then the other receptacles are acceptable.
Click to expand...
 
charlie b said:

I don?t think it is quite as clean and simple as that. I submit that any and all receptacles that serve a peninsula or island countertop from below must meet the 6?/12? rule. The whole thing turns on the question of whether any of (what you are calling) the ?extra? receptacles are, or are not, intended to serve the countertop. I believe you can install one receptacle to serve the countertop, and put it within the 6?/12? spacing, and then install another receptacle closer to the floor, with that other one intended to be used by a vacuum cleaner.

Look at the wording of 210.52(C), specifically the sentence before sub-paragraph (1). It says that receptacles for countertop spaces shall comply with (1) through (5). It does not say that any and all receptacles that are attached to the wall, peninsula, or island shall comply, just the ones that serve the countertop. Sub-paragraph (5) brings the 6?/12? rule into play, and it does not give us any exceptions to that rule for any ?extra receptacles.? So if there is more than one receptacle on a peninsula that serves the countertop, it must meet the 6?/12? rule.

I cannot tell from the OP?s description whether the extra receptacles that are more than 12? below an overhang of 6? are there to serve the countertop. This would be a difficult call to make, even if I could see a photo of the installation. What is the intent of those extra receptacles? Are they far enough below the countertop to make it clear that they are not intended to serve the countertop?

My opinion is that if a receptacle is to be installed below an overhang that exceeds 6?, then that receptacle must be installed close to the floor level. I believe that 18? off the floor is the customary height for such things.
Click to expand...
I agree that 18" is a customary height, I disagree that such receptacle must be installed close to floor level. Depending on exact location and intended purpose it may need to be on SABC, may be prohibited on SABC, may or may not require AFCI/GFCI protection. I could hang a pendant from the ceiling within a few inches horizontally from the island counter top and have the connector hang at 18 inches above floor - does this serve the counter or the floor?? It can easily be pulled up to be used on the counter even though I may already have a receptacle that meets requirements to serve the counter.

infinity said:
Does the really NEC limit where "extra" receptacles can be installed?
Click to expand...
at this location - not really, we do have some restrictions in some areas though like a tub or shower space.
 
infinity said:
Does the really NEC limit where "extra" receptacles can be installed?
Click to expand...

No.

The way I see this is if I have my SABC, the 6"/12" rule satisfied then I can place any receptacle any where on that peninsula as long as I am not in the "SABC and the 6"12" zone"
 
edward said:
No.

The way I see this is if I have my SABC, the 6"/12" rule satisfied then I can place any receptacle any where on that peninsula as long as I am not in the "SABC and the 6"12" zone"
Click to expand...
Why can't you have additional receptacles in the "zone" you mentioned? That would be like having a 24 inch wide countertop that only requires one outlet - but you could place 10 outlets to serve it if you wished and no violation there. SABC, GFCI, AFCI are other issues that can come up, but you could have continuous outlets surrounding that island or peninsula if you wished as long as at least one of them is in the "zone".
 
kwired said:
Why can't you have additional receptacles in the "zone" you mentioned? That would be like having a 24 inch wide countertop that only requires one outlet - but you could place 10 outlets to serve it if you wished and no violation there. SABC, GFCI, AFCI are other issues that can come up, but you could have continuous outlets surrounding that island or peninsula if you wished as long as at least one of them is in the "zone".
Click to expand...


So I could install an outlet on a kitchen counter that is fed from the 15 amp living room circuit as long as I have the required kitchen circuits?
 
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