Permits in a Manufacturing plant

[Davebones]

We had a new service ( 2000 amp ) and some bus duct ( 480v ) added in part of our plant . This was done with a outside electrical contractor with a electrical permit . This area will get filled up slowly with equipment over a period of time . The electrical inspector wants permits pulled and load calculations done on any equipment tied in or moved around . This is stuff we normally add a bus switch and pipe over to the machine ourselves and tie-in . We move equipment around often when management decides there's a better way to lay it out ( KAIZEN ) . It can be equipment from 15 amp to 200 amp feeds . I don't see how this can work with the way we constantly move our machines around and pull permits at the same time . ( This is around 200,000 sf , people that work in a manufacturing plant will understand the constant moving ) . We have a Master Electrician and Journeyman that do the work . My boss will have to deal with the county on this , just looking for some thoughts about this .

 

[petersonra]

My guess is the inspector is looking at his work load and is trying to improve his chances of continued employment.

In many areas of the country there is an agreement in place (often unofficial in nature) between industrial facilities and the AHJ that these kind of changes require no permits or no inspection or both. Most of the time the local inspectors are clueless about this kind of stuff anyway.

But when people see their paycheck being threatened by lack of work, all bets are off.

 

[bradleyelectric]

My thoughts on this. Say ok.

 

[satcom]

There are many industrial managers, that have the mistaken idea that they are exempt, because of the size of their corporation, and their poor practices when it comes to plant construction requirements, and laws that apply to their new construction projects.

most general plant maint, and repair work is exempt from permits and inspections, but when they get into construction, they are in most cases required to file plans, and obtain all required permits and inspections, their plant PE or a corporation officer can usually sign the permit application.
The problem usually comes when they have to wait a planning approval, on major work, they cry like a baby, as soon as they have to comply with any laws or approvals, you have to understand their position, they are more important then anyone or anything else.

 

[Joethemechanic]

they are more important then anyone or anything else.

And many many times they get their way, money talks.

I can remember in the 90's working on a big coil leveling machinery installation. I think it would do a 45,000 coil and there were shears that cut on the fly, and slitters, and accumulators, and stitchers ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The guy that owned the steel warehouse never pulled a permit for anything, and I mean nothing at all.

The guy use to have the Governor over for dinner and would let him fly on his corporate aircraft as a favor.

Would you even want to try to stop a guy like that? Because you could find yourself on the outside looking in real fast.

 

[iwire]

My guess is the inspector is looking at his work load and is trying to improve his chances of continued employment.

Or maybe he is just trying to do the job he was hired for and enforce the laws in his area.

 

[iwire]

The electrical inspector wants permits pulled and load calculations done on any equipment tied in or moved around . This is stuff we normally add a bus switch and pipe over to the machine ourselves and tie-in . We move equipment around often when management decides there's a better way to lay it out ( KAIZEN ) . It can be equipment from 15 amp to 200 amp feeds . I don't see how this can work with the way we constantly move our machines around and pull permits at the same time . ( This is around 200,000 sf , people that work in a manufacturing plant will understand the constant moving ) . We have a Master Electrician and Journeyman that do the work . My boss will have to deal with the county on this , just looking for some thoughts about this .

Good, your work should be subject to the same scrunity as any subcontractor.

There are time pressures outside your walls as well and others find a way to deal with them.

 

[Davebones]

We are not installing electrical that is permanent to the building . When areas get rearranged there can be 30 pieces of equipment being relocated . We are not installing electrical for profit . Yes sounds good make us get permits every time we change something . Its going to sound good when the 400 people who mortages depend on this place find out they are re-locating the plant because of this . Hope something like that doesn't happen , but with Corporate America you never know ...

 

[kwired]

We are not installing electrical that is permanent to the building . When areas get rearranged there can be 30 pieces of equipment being relocated . We are not installing electrical for profit . Yes sounds good make us get permits every time we change something . Its going to sound good when the 400 people who mortages depend on this place find out they are re-locating the plant because of this . Hope something like that doesn't happen , but with Corporate America you never know ...

You can always move your plant here, our inspectors are easy to get along with. You will not be exempt, they are just easy to get along with - normally. Have even had industrial places in the past where we just have a open permit for like a year and inspector comes in and we show him what we have done. Sometimes there were things that were put in and taken out and he never even seen it.

Sometimes a company will spend thousands of dollars just to see if an idea will work - and it does not.

 

[iwire]

Here we can pull a year long 'maintenance' permit allowing us to do repairs etc. We are supposed to keep a log of what we do.

A new installation, even where we have a 'maintenance permit' requires another permit for that specific new installation.

Now do all the factories around here follow those rules ............

 

[kwired]

Or maybe he is just trying to do the job he was hired for and enforce the laws in his area.

And we should not expect any less from him.

Good, your work should be subject to the same scrunity as any subcontractor.

There are time pressures outside your walls as well and others find a way to deal with them.

Loss of production may cost much more than fines from the AHJ. Unless he has reason to have power disconnected some may just see the fines as a necessary expense.

You also have control of the inspector when he is in your facility. Make him do everything that every other employee has to do for safety as well as product protection. Some places this could mean taking a shower before entering, wearing clothes provided by the plant, and limiting what can be brought in from outside.

 

[iwire]

Loss of production may cost much more than fines from the AHJ.

And the lost production an irritated AHJ can legally cause can be more still..........:lol:

 

[Joethemechanic]

Yeah Bob, but a rich guy with a lot of money can call up his buddies and say "this ain't play time any more, back this guy down or,,,,"


And believe me whatever that OR thing is, you probably don't want it.

No 50 thousand dollar a year inspector is equipped to do battle with a guy who can write a 10 million dollar check.

 

[iwire]

Yeah Bob, but a rich guy with a lot of money can call up his buddies and say "this ain't play time any more, back this guy down or,,,,"


And believe me whatever that OR thing is, you probably don't want it.

No 50 thousand dollar a year inspector is equipped to do battle with a guy who can write a 10 million dollar check.

Is there a point here Joe?

Yes, illegal things happen but they don't always happen, in some areas there rarely happen, regardless that does not change the rules.

 

[Joethemechanic]

in some areas there rarely happen,

Where are those places? I've yet to find them anywhere near me.

And yeah, the point is what they tell you the rules are, and what the rules really are, can be light years apart.

 

[maghazadeh]

My guess is the inspector is looking at his work load and is trying to improve his chances of continued employment.

petersonra, If your statement above is correct, then that could be also true with NEC code panel personals who sometimes comes up with crazy code change and issues.

Davebones, If I was you I go directly to City and talk to building officials or inspector's supervisor and arrange for a special condition agreed upon for your special needs.
A lots of rules and regulation that we have are good for everyone to follow, but not all are rules.
At the same time we need to keep our manufacturing / businesses here, we have lost too many already to places like China and etc............!!!
Let see what we can do to bring them back to our homeland.

 

[maghazadeh]

petersonra, If your statement above is correct, then that could be also true with NEC code panel personals who sometimes comes up with crazy code change and issues.

Davebones, If I was you I go directly to City and talk to building officials or inspector's supervisor and arrange for a special condition agreed upon for your special needs.
A lots of rules and regulation that we have are good for everyone to follow, but not all are rules.
At the same time we need to keep our manufacturing / businesses here, we have lost too many already to places like China and etc............!!!
Let see what we can do to bring them back to our homeland.

Sorry I meant to say, but not all are good rules.