The State of Michigan requires industrial facilities that engage in electrical work by "in-house" electricians, hold a contractor license and employ a master electrician who works under the plants contractor license, known as the "master of record". One of the functions of the master of record is to pull permits and to insure that the work being performed is code compliant. For the 25+ years in the field I have yet to see or hear of permits being pulled or inspections being made in any of the industrial plants I have worked in. My question is, how do industrial plants get away with this? Even contractors doing work in these plants are not pulling permits. Some projects are quite visable to the local authority but there seems to be some reluctance on their part to require permits. Or is there just something I'm missing that permits and inspections are not required in industrial facilities?
Permits in Industrial Plants
- Thread starter mlp425
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geez....looks like Michigan would wear themselves out, getting through security and making daily inspections. I'm like you, its been my experience that industrial facilities having their own engineering control have never been permited.....I've seen in-house inspections, and "management of change" work orders that have to be signed before installations can performed.
It could be that the state of Michigan has had problems with code compliance issues effecting surounding public safety, or there is funny business going on....:roll:
They don't always get away with it, If an accident occurs , or there is a major loss, they loose by not only paying for the loss, but the managment that allowed it also suffers usually with their up the ladder future is lost.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
In michigan? No way ! With the big 3 and UAW? Say it isnt so! In the city with one of the most corrupt governments in the history of governments? never
ohm
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
Over 40 years I've worked in many industrial plants in many states and we never pulled an electrical permit except in NC (he showed up about once every few months). Had over 300 electricians on-site for up to a year at a time.
As mule mentioned they would have to live on-site to keep up and no one even thought to ask if we needed one.
We had an electrician fall and died in LA...OSHA investigated for about a week but there were no fines.
There is enough wiggle room in the verbage used by the state to adopt the NEC together with the scope section at the beginning of the NEC that industrial plants can honestly claim the NEC does not have the force of law inside the plant. The facility is not open to the public, documented procedures for operation and maintenance exist, and anyone inside the facility is trained on the procedures they follow as part of their job, and they are trained on where to find trained people in the event their training doesn't cover something they want to do. For code purposes the plant manager or some other manager or engineer becomes the AHJ and takes on that liability. From a liability perspective any industrial plant still has to follow the NEC and any other IEEE, NETA, etc. standards that exist or the company can be found negligent when an accident or malfunction occurs.
This self-certification is basically a way to get around the hassles of permits for work that is essentially ongoing, and results in the company taking on more liability since no outside inspector "blessed" the installation.
This self-certification is basically a way to get around the hassles of permits for work that is essentially ongoing, and results in the company taking on more liability since no outside inspector "blessed" the installation.
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