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Person electrocuted, 4 others hurt including children

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brother

Senior Member
Location
"I have learned, in whatsoever STATE I am, therewi
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
B

brycenesbitt

Senior Member
Location
United States
From weeks before:

"Fleck said when she sat down on the wall where the fountains are located and put her hand in the water, she was immediately shocked by the water. The woman said she described the feeling as an intense tingling up her whole arm, which lasted a couple of minutes after she removed her hand from the water.

Fleck said she knew something was wrong, so she began telling the group of people she was with. Several of those individuals also touched the water to see what was going on, and they also were shocked. Fleck advised they were also shocked by the water coming up from the splash pad as well as the coverings around the holes where the water comes from."

www.wptv.com

Jupiter police incident report details chaos after father electrocuted at Harbourside Place

Police released new details related to the electrocution of a man that also injured three children earlier this month at the Harbourside Place fountain in Jupiter.
www.wptv.com www.wptv.com
 
drcampbell

drcampbell

Senior Member
Location
The Motor City, Michigan USA
Occupation
Registered Professional Engineer
tortuga said:
Its time to delete part 5 of 680 and just consider fountains pools, as the public really does not make a distinction between the two.
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Hear here. If you can wade in, reach into, or fall into the water, it's essentially the same electrical hazard. Consolidate the requirements and eliminate an essentially-reduntant paragraph.
 
B

brycenesbitt

Senior Member
Location
United States
drcampbell said:
Hear here. If you can wade in, reach into, or fall into the water, it's essentially the same electrical hazard. Consolidate the requirements and eliminate an essentially-reduntant paragraph.
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I'd go even farther.
There should be no ability to interchange a GFCI breaker with a regular one in this case.
It's just as bad as Edison base fuses: anything into anything
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How about instead if water contact electrical requires a smart controller with integral residual current detection. No separate GFCI. And in the case of water contact activities integral active stray current detection (like the "pool current hazard alarm" floaty devices, but built in to the water feature controller). A pool lighting or filter controller can do all this. Or if needed a "smart outlet" kind of like a GFCI but dedicated to the purpose of making safe the plug connected underwater lighting people seem to insist on using, and with the immersion sensor.
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The old days when dumb shutoff devices were needed should long be gone. Your car's keyfob has a computer more powerful than the one that landed rockets on the moon. We can do better now!

640.44(B) hints at this "(A) Listed Units. Additional GFCI protection isn’t required for a listed self-contained spa or hot tub unit or listed packaged spa or hot tub assembly marked to indicate that integral GFCI protection has been provided for electrical parts within the unit or assembly." (Source Mike Holt's Article 680 ARTICLE 680 guide)
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And while we're talking about removing code: 680.44(B) exceptions for heaters above 50A are highly suspect.
640px-Edison-base-and-Type-S-fuses.jpg
 
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L

letgomywago

Senior Member
Location
Washington state and Oregon coast
Occupation
residential electrician
brycenesbitt said:
I'd go even farther.
There should be no ability to interchange a GFCI breaker with a regular one in this case.
It's just as bad as Edison base fuses: anything into anything
--
How about instead if water contact electrical requires a smart controller with integral residual current detection. No separate GFCI. And in the case of water contact activities integral active stray current detection (like the "pool current hazard alarm" floaty devices, but built in to the water feature controller). A pool lighting or filter controller can do all this. Or if needed a "smart outlet" kind of like a GFCI but dedicated to the purpose of making safe the plug connected underwater lighting people seem to insist on using, and with the immersion sensor.
--
The old days when dumb shutoff devices were needed should long be gone. Your car's keyfob has a computer more powerful than the one that landed rockets on the moon. We can do better now!

640.44(B) hints at this "(A) Listed Units. Additional GFCI protection isn’t required for a listed self-contained spa or hot tub unit or listed packaged spa or hot tub assembly marked to indicate that integral GFCI protection has been provided for electrical parts within the unit or assembly." (Source Mike Holt's Article 680 ARTICLE 680 guide)
--
And while we're talking about removing code: 680.44(B) exceptions for heaters above 50A are highly suspect.
View attachment 2571066
Click to expand...
I don't mind the heater exception if it's a heat pump which is the most common way I've seen.
 
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