Pet Peeves - Local AHJ's that make changes to the code.

[steve66]

I know there was a whole other thread on pet peeves, but I thought this one might warrant a thread unto itself.

One of my pet peeves is when a city, small town, or other AHJ makes a major changes to a code when they adopt it. It just baffles me why one individual (or a few) would think they know better than everyone that is involved in the code making process. If a code is good enough to be adoped by entire states, or even the majority of the country, why wouldn't it be good enough for a small midwest town??

My most recent example is a AHJ who wants to write a local amendment to require fire alarm pull station at all exits of all buildings. Even sprinklered buildings with smoke alarms. They actually wanted these pull station in a daycare for toddlers that has an exterior exit door in every classroom. I would think those pull stations would get activated on a regular basis by kids who don't know any better.


Another is a local town that has a local ammendment that prohibits generator power for emergency lighting. Everything has to be battery packs. Can you imagine a 100,000 sq ft building with all battery packs? The worst part of that is the toxic chemicals that will add to landfills if the battery packs aren't disposed of properly.

Anyhow, I would be interested in any other local requirements that just don't seem to make any sense. And in particular, any short sighted amendments that have either not worked out, or have backfired. (Either NEC codes, or other NFPA or IBC codes are fair game.)

Steve

 

[pfalcon]

How about a large state. I know one that is about to adopt the 2008 NEC but without AFCI and TR clauses except if you are working on a one or two family residential in which case we don't like the 2008 NEC at all so you stay on the 2005.

I have to go for that confusion. Maybe we can mandate separate panels for the upper and lower floors of dual half family (bilevel) residential. The fines (surprise taxation) would be a good revenue stream for the state.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Anyhow, I would be interested in any other local requirements that just don't seem to make any sense. And in particular, any short sighted amendments that have either not worked out, or have backfired. (Either NEC codes, or other NFPA or IBC codes are fair game.)

Steve

There may not be enough space on the internet for the responses you could receive from a request such as this.:grin:


The most important facet of local changes is to be aware of them.
The second most important facet of local changes is equal enforcement.

There are issues in life we all face and some we do not like, I would not get too excited about it, that is a direct means of gray hair.

 

[ITO]

Minimum size duplex receptacle in commercial projects is 20A (BTW for some strange reason a condos and apartments count as commercial projects)

Downsizing neutral on service feeder not allowed.

No AC Cable

No MC home runs allowed into the panel; only hard pipe home runs allowed.

No MC than 4 type MC may be placed within a junction box (any size)

Separate conduit and boxes for 120/208 and 277/480, conductors of different systems shall NOT occupy the same raceway, boxes, gutters, or cable trays.

Abandoned Raceway for a remodel must be removed, it can not be labeled spare.

The two appliance branch circuits may not have any more than 6 duplex receptacles each.

Individual 20A branch circuits for refrigerator, trash compactor, dishwasher, disposal, built in microwave, vent hood, freezer, washer, dryer, or other fixed appliances is mandatory.

The Ufer ground is mandatory, and you will have to chip up concrete to put it in if you miss it?.yes I have missed it before.

Raceway, cables and assemblies can NOT be support by any ceiling grid wires used to support the ceiling grid, they must be supported by their own means, completely independent of the ceiling grid.

Max voltage for pool lights in 24V

(there are about 8 more pages and I don?t have time to type them all up?)

 

[cowboyjwc]

There's a couple of cities around here that don't allow NMC, anywhere.

Or the one pfalcon quoted is another one that I was thinking of. I could see putting something in that made it safer, but I can't see taking something out. We used to get just as many complaints about GFCI's not working as we do about AFCI's not working, but for some reason they didn't take them out of their code adoption.

I'm not real sure that I see a pull station by each exit as a bad thing.

Here we require a seismic wire on everything in a suspended ceiling, no matter what the weight. Now that may seem extreme to someone back east, but you had to be here for our last big earthquake to really understand the reasoning behind it. So maybe the pull stations are a result of a fire somewhere that killed some people.

The city of Los Angeles used to have over 400 amendments to the NEC, until the State of California told them to knock it off, I think they're down to 40.

 

[brantmacga]

It just baffles me why one individual (or a few) would think they know better than everyone that is involved in the code making process. If a code is good enough to be adoped by entire states, or even the majority of the country, why wouldn't it be good enough for a small midwest town??

I agree completely.

Here we require a seismic wire on everything in a suspended ceiling, no matter what the weight. Now that may seem extreme to someone back east, but you had to be here for our last big earthquake to really understand the reasoning behind it

As long as they used solid factual data to come to the conclusion, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Sounds like a good idea. But most of these amendments are based on opinions.

 

[steve66]

Don't get me wrong, I do think some amendments are good. Especially the ones that help clarify things that may not be spelled out real well in a code.

But I think it is rarely necessary to go above and beyond the code. And fire pulls are a good example. In some buildings they might make sense, but I think the code requires them in those buildings.

Putting one by every exit on a small single story, sprinklered building, with automatic smoke detetion is just overkill. There is no cost/benfit consideration. If anything is good, more must be better.

I also agree - taking code requirements out is a risky business. However, AFCI's might be an exception since they are so contriversal.

Steve

 

[cowboyjwc]

And I don't disagree that amendments based on opinion are a bad idea. We used to have many amendments in our local ordinace that I just went along with when I first got here, but I've gotten down to three or four and two are more definitions and the other one is for something that's not in the code.

Many times amendments are a geographical thing, though with the NEC, we don't really have that problem too much, but the building code is full of things that we here look and and go "who thought that was a good idea" and of course the people back east are looking at things that came in from the UBC and not BOCA or SBC and are thinking the same thing.

 

[hillbilly1]

I had one local utility that also had the jurisdiction of inspections, they would not allow any lights in bedroom closets regardless of type of fixture or size of closet! They also would not allow aluminum feeders to mobile homes, copper only.

 

[LarryFine]

I had one local utility that also had the jurisdiction of inspections, they would not allow any lights in bedroom closets regardless of type of fixture or size of closet! They also would not allow aluminum feeders to mobile homes, copper only.

I have no problem (well, not none*) with such inane rules as long as they're legally adopted and published so all EC's are bidding on and installing the same work.


* I think needing a flashlight to use a walk-in closet is quite inane.

 

[nakulak]

I think it makes life interesting, what's the big deal ? If the ahj has the authority and they want certain things, then its damn well within their rights to amend the code any way they see fit. If, on the other hand, you as a taxpayer and voter disagree, then by all means use every means at your disposal to voice your opinion, run them out of office, or whatever you see fit. that's our system.

 

[LarryFine]

If the ahj has the authority and they want certain things, then its damn well within their rights to amend the code any way they see fit.

As long as the amendment's adoption is legally passed and uniformly enforced, yes.

What's peevish is when a 'rogue' inspector decides he'd like to see things done differently from the requirements, and abuses his power to enforce his desires.

He's certainly allowed to pursue an electrician's license if he wants to see electrical work done to his own personal standards.

 

[benaround]

As long as the amendment's adoption is legally passed and uniformly enforced, yes.

What's peevish is when a 'rogue' inspector decides he'd like to see things done differently from the requirements, and abuses his power to enforce his desires.

He's certainly allowed to pursue an electrician's license if he wants to see electrical work done to his own personal standards.

Larry,

That would just be inane !

 

[cadpoint]

(Either NEC codes, or other NFPA or IBC codes are fair game.)

I didn't think any Code other than NFPA-72 applies to electrical residential, but you didn't limit the thought either, and I could be mistaken!

It's so territorial! For the well read, it's just a task! For the knowing and unknowing it still could well be a peeve!

Besides, the resent reprieve in a post here, in my State, is really understood to be clock work on the state level, and the City and towns, welp just more stuff...

 

[hillbilly1]

I have no problem (well, not none*) with such inane rules as long as they're legally adopted and published so all EC's are bidding on and installing the same work.


* I think needing a flashlight to use a walk-in closet is quite inane.

This was not written, he was the inspector for the whole county, it was just his rules. If you didn't follow them, you got no power.

 

[LarryFine]

This was not written, he was the inspector for the whole county, it was just his rules. If you didn't follow them, you got no power.

He had no supervisor, or department head, or anything?

Even then, there should be a legal process of appeal.