PEX piping grounding/bonding

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tonype

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New Jersey
Rehab where only visbible potable copper pipe is service (see photo) and around the water heater (another photo). Everything else is PEX. Hot water baseboard heating system is also mostly PEX (only baseboard and near-boiler piping is copper).

Bonding jumpers are across the pipes to the water meter and heater; however, is this sufficient? Are there any concerns with this (my concern is what does the one by the water heater even accomplish)? Unfortunately, the home is completely finished and the photos supplied generally show it all.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/IMGP8414_edited-1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/IMGP8415.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/TonyPE/IMGP8416.jpg
 
The Nec states in 250.104(A) that metal water piping systems shall be bonded. In my opinion a few feet of copper does not make a metal piping system. I don't see the need to bond this except for the first pic where the water pipe is an electrode.
 
If the entire place is PEX then the only required connection is the GEC within 5' of the water main.
 
I don't think he was referring to the size of the loop, but to the presence of the jumper at all. There's no reason for it, but by golly every installation around here gets one too. :roll:
 
electricmanscott said:
The person that did those installations really needs to get into a classroom, fast. That first picture is particularly embarrassing.
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petersonra said:
The loop is kind of big, but I don't see anything that violates any code. It may be that there was some kind of mods after the jumper was put in.
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George Stolz said:
I don't think he was referring to the size of the loop, but to the presence of the jumper at all. There's no reason for it, but by golly every installation around here gets one too. :roll:
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Comeon Scott, give the guy a break. I am sure he would have bonded to the Pex if it was installed when he put his tail there...;):D
 
In a related job, if i may. Had a job where the plumbers removed all the galvanized water pipes in the basement of house and replaced them with plastic. However all the riser pipes (metal) to the fixtures upstairs were left in and attached to the plastic.

What needs to be bonded?


Perhaps a better way to ask is, what constitutes a metal piping system?
 
There have been quite a few long, drawn out discussions about that. There is no defined parameters for what constitutes a "system" so it falls to 90.4.
 
petersonra said:
The loop is kind of big, but I don't see anything that violates any code. It may be that there was some kind of mods after the jumper was put in.
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Somebody that thinks there is a need to jump that meter clearly has no understanding as to what they are attaching that wire for in the first place.

Not saying it's bad, violates any code or will cause any harm but it does show a lack of understanding, hence the classroom comment.
 
electricmanscott said:
Somebody that thinks there is a need to jump that meter clearly has no understanding as to what they are attaching that wire for in the first place.

Not saying it's bad, violates any code or will cause any harm but it does show a lack of understanding, hence the classroom comment.
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It's certainly no worse than the ground clamp directly on plastic pipe.
 
electricmanscott said:
Somebody that thinks there is a need to jump that meter clearly has no understanding as to what they are attaching that wire for in the first place.

Not saying it's bad, violates any code or will cause any harm but it does show a lack of understanding, hence the classroom comment.
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Scott

I get it.

There is a private water company in my area that requires the presence of the jumper. The theory is the plumbing might be changed to copper at a later date, and they only inspect the initial install. They dont want a meter that is changed out, when a metallic piping system is present, provoking a shock hazard to their meter guy. Not that this is the case though, just a point.
 
George Stolz said:
I don't think he was referring to the size of the loop, but to the presence of the jumper at all. There's no reason for it, but by golly every installation around here gets one too. :roll:
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sometimes it is easier to just do what is expected rather than explaining that it is not really necessary. it could also have been that the plastic was not present when the electrician did the wiring.
 
petersonra said:
sometimes it is easier to just do what is expected rather than explaining that it is not really necessary. it could also have been that the plastic was not present when the electrician did the wiring.
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I agree with both statements, but without knowing for sure I can only comment what I see and what I see is stupidity. ;)
 
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