PEX thru house....still jumper water heater?

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ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Hi friends,
My plumber buddy called and asked if he needed to jump the water heater in a house he's doing with all PEX.

I mentioned the speaker/inspector from the CEU class I attended installed a jacuzzi in his house fed with PEX. The inspector had him bond a small metal nipple that came from the faucet of the jacuzzi that was fed with PEX. He did, and when the inspector left he removed it.

My suggestion to the plumber was to jump the heater and be done with it.

Any thoughts?

He also mentioned, when I mentioned to him about the Jacuzzi, that he knows of an install where the electrical inspector wanted a bond from the jacuzzi back to the panel. As far as I know, the bond would go from the motor to the metal water pipe and is not required to go back to the panel. Please double confirm this for me.....

Much Thanks,
Rich
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
As far as the water heater, to me 250.104(A) requires boning of metal "piping systems"..a couple of nipple are not a system IMO.

As far as the hydrotub, refer to 680.74 there are some variables.

In addition, every hydrotub that has a heater that I have inspected has manufacturer's install instructions that require a bond from the heater back to the service panel or approved local bond.
The actual "jucuzzi" brand has instructions that require a bond from the pump back to the panel or "approved local bond".. That is the only manufacturer I have encountered with the requirement on the pump.
The "approved local bond" might be subject to different interpretations by AHJs

(This is a portion of the text from the instuction manual:
[FONT=&quot]"With a #8 solid copper wire, bond the heater to the house electrical panel or approved local bond. A bonding lug is provided on the heater. With another #8 solid copper wire, bond the pump/motor to the house electrical panel or approved local bond. A bonding lug is provided on the pump/motor.[/FONT]" )
 
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cowboyjwc

Moderator
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Location
Simi Valley, CA
I still don't know why people jump the water heater. It's never been required. You are only required to bond the cold water pipe and the hot water side was always bonded through the mixing valves. If you are using PEX pipe, there is no need to bond any thing.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I still don't know why people jump the water heater. It's never been required. You are only required to bond the cold water pipe and the hot water side was always bonded through the mixing valves. If you are using PEX pipe, there is no need to bond any thing.

Correct or not, inspectors in this area started requiring the "jumper" when non-metallic water heater tanks became popular. With the introduction of those along with non-meal mixing valves, the wanted assurance that the hot water was bonded.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I still don't know why people jump the water heater. It's never been required. You are only required to bond the cold water pipe and the hot water side was always bonded through the mixing valves. If you are using PEX pipe, there is no need to bond any thing.
Many of todays faucet sets (mixing valves) are non-metallic or if metallic connected by non-metallic tubing.
 

cowboyjwc

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Location
Simi Valley, CA
Many of todays faucet sets (mixing valves) are non-metallic or if metallic connected by non-metallic tubing.

Correct and if there is no metallic connection then bonding is not required. Remember "metal water piping system"

Now if you look at the hand book, I don't disagree that you might need to bond the cold and hot, but it's doesn't need to be bonded just because. And again you don't need to bond them at all if you are using PEX or some other nonmetallic piping system.
 
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hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,Ga
Occupation
Field coordinator/ technical support
Where jumpering the water heater came in at, is like jumpering the water meter, there may be fittings on the water heater that interupt the continuity of the bonding, since everything is pretty much plastic nowadays, it's not much of an issue anymore.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Here we're required to put in the jumper at the HWH. A jumper from the motor to the water pipe feeding a faucet for a hydromassage tub is not required by the NEC.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Here we're required to put in the jumper at the HWH. A jumper from the motor to the water pipe feeding a faucet for a hydromassage tub is not required by the NEC.

That's correct also. You only need to bond the older motors that had the bonding lug on them. You are not permitted to bond double insulated motors.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
You only need to bond the older motors that had the bonding lug on them. You are not permitted to bond double insulated motors.

From my understanding......even if the motor was not bonded....the whip would have to be there to show the intention, and or to be provided for a future motor???

Bond those older motors to what specifically?

Cold water pipe.

This is the first I've heard of this infinity..............should I go back to all this little bond whips I've put in over the past years and disconnect them for scrap?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Here's 680.74. If the requirement for all metal piping systems is a separate requirement then that would mean all metal piping systems within the structure which would require a metallic gas pipe to be bonded to the tub motor. Actually the two parts of the first sentence, all metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts are not separate requirements. Both of those thing relate to the circulating water system only not the water pipe used to fill the tub. Hopefully the wording will finally change in the 2014 NEC to clarify this.

680.74 Bonding.
All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a solid copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG. The bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal on the circulating pump motor that is intended for this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be required to be connected to a double insulated circulating pump motor. The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding jumper shall be required for equipotential bonding in the area of the hydromassage bathtub and shall not be required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Here's 680.74. If the requirement for all metal piping systems is a separate requirement then that would mean all metal piping systems within the structure which would require a metallic gas pipe to be bonded to the tub motor. Actually the two parts of the first sentence, all metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts are not separate requirements. Both of those thing relate to the circulating water system only not the water pipe used to fill the tub. Hopefully the wording will finally change in the 2014 NEC to clarify this.

680.74 Bonding.
All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a solid copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG. The bonding jumper shall be connected to the terminal on the circulating pump motor that is intended for this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be required to be connected to a double insulated circulating pump motor. The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding jumper shall be required for equipotential bonding in the area of the hydromassage bathtub and shall not be required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode.

"In contact with circulator pump"........it does not say within structure or anything about gas......... respectfully curious. Rich
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Note ..I can see the discrepancy in the wording (and where gas my apply (hot water)). Wondering why though for all these yrs. jump from motor to water pipe......end of story. what about no natural gas, if you used propane.

off topic yet became part of topic...Do you or would you recommend bonding of the gas service? What does the good book say? I say it says YES.........but people say don't (well not people in the gas community).
 
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