PG&E filing bankruptcy....

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Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
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E
whatcha all think about this?

let's try if possible, not to politically lock the thread, at least until someone
can't control their point of view... ;-)

my thought is, if utilities are held accountable, they either raise their rates to
allow for this, to the extent possible, or we all eat it when they fold.

it's not like we have comparative shopping options here...
 
Just an accounting /lawyer function.
However stock and investors will take a huge hit and the rate payers will pickup the slack. Unless the are another "too large to fail" and the U.S. as a whole will pay.
 
I have forest land in Lewis county WA.

The poco in Lewis county is a PUD, Tacoma city light has 2 large and 2 smaller dams in the county that the PUD gets power from.

Rates are still low, under 10 cent kW-hr.

Nearly 30 years ago, simply from a maintenance standpoint, the PUD put all rural power lines underground. Much lower fire danger in Lewis county and wet 10 months out of the year, but just from savings in replacing downed lines, believe the PUD paid for all the underground work years ago.

The big 345 kV lines and similar are still above ground though, but the access to those is well maintained.

What I've read, is the CampFire got out of control because of the lack of accessibility by fire crews to the downed line area - Maddog likely has some detailed info on the specifics of how the fire got out of control.

I don't know when most the houses in Paradise were built, but youngest son built a house outside Nevada City, CA about 8 years ago and the codes then dictated fire resistance - metal or tile roof, NO eaves, ember resistant venting, stucco or similar outside, triple pane e-coated windows, specific vegetation clearance requirements, etc..... Nevada City about 70 mi SE of Paradise on some type Sierra foothills terrain.
 
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junkhound said:
I don't know when most the houses in Paradise were built, but youngest son built a house outside Nevada City, CA about 8 years ago and the codes then dictated fire resistance - metal or tile roof, NO eaves, ember resistant venting, stucco or similar outside, triple pane e-coated windows, specific vegetation clearance requirements, etc..... Nevada City about 70 mi SE of Paradise on some type Sierra foothills terrain.
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Why no eaves? Is it because a fire next to the house would have a pathway into the attic?
 
ggunn said:
Why no eaves? Is it because a fire next to the house would have a pathway into the attic?
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Seems logical. We've had several huge apartment building fires around here where an unattended grill or smoker's can on a top-floor balcony would burn up and through an eave. The eaves on my house are only 1/4" plywood.

Nevada City was an interesting place to be in August 2003 when the humidity was 10 percent, the air temp was 100 degrees, trees towering over you, and thunderstorms were on the way.
 
Fulthrotl said:
whatcha all think about this?

let's try if possible, not to politically lock the thread, at least until someone
can't control their point of view... ;-)

my thought is, if utilities are held accountable, they either raise their rates to
allow for this, to the extent possible, or we all eat it when they fold.

it's not like we have comparative shopping options here...
Click to expand...

Are they filing or done so already?
 
It is an interesting question and for those who aren't in that area, PG and E is private, but a monopoly in most of California, so in my mind this discussion is germane to all public entities, government, monopolies etc. Remember that the movie Erin Brockovich was about PG and E negligence. The reason I bring it up is because from a moral, not a legal perspective, the Erin suit was valid. I am not so sure about the recent ones, specifically that big gas explosion and the fires. If either are shown to be intentional negligence or failure to perform work they were required to do, then yes they are liable, but if not then it is an example of our TOO litigious society. Just like any government, though, the options are everybody ponies up, or there is anarchy. I don't see any other option.
 
The state plays a roll of responsibility too, forest management hasn't been maintained with fire in mind; we must hug a tree.
 
GoldDigger said:
They are legally required to announce their intention to file for bankruptcy one month before actually filing. (Utility regs?)
They have made that announcement.
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On the 29th PG&E is supposed to file any way you look at it, the ratepayers are going to pay.
 
norcal said:
On the 29th PG&E is supposed to file any way you look at it, the ratepayers are going to pay.
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Unfortunately, the PGE shareholders and bondholders are going to take a big hit becasue the state regulators never allowed PGE enough revenue to do things right. The same problem exists in most of the country as regulators try to keep the cost of electricity down. My guess is that rate payers everywhere are going to get a shock to their system as decades of underfunding has to be made up. Kind of like how many states and localities try to deal with the gold plated pension promises they made to public employees but never funded.
 
petersonra said:
Kind of like how many states and localities try to deal with the gold plated pension promises they made to public employees but never funded.
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Who would have thought that people would live so long? The air isn't safe to breath, the water isn't safe to drink and the food would have exterminated the dinosaurs . How where they supposed to know that people would live long enough to retire?
 
growler said:
Who would have thought that people would live so long? The air isn't safe to breath, the water isn't safe to drink and the food would have exterminated the dinosaurs . How where they supposed to know that people would live long enough to retire?
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Like most organisms we adapt, or our cells do, until there is just to great of a change in to short of a period of time.
 
ptonsparky said:
Like most organisms we adapt, or our cells do, until there is just to great of a change in to short of a period of time.
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This is more a case of our changing the environment than adapting to it, i.e., medical care, water supply, food supply, communications, transportation, etc.
 
sameguy said:
The state plays a roll of responsibility too, forest management hasn't been maintained with fire in mind; we must hug a tree.
Click to expand...

don't hug. rake. i heard it on the internet. it must be true.
the problem we have is multifaceted, at least on the left coast.
and it has little to do with either politics, or utilities.

an awful lot of draught. and beetles.

Dec 11, 2017 - The U.S. Forest Service announced that a historic 129 million trees
on 8.9 million acres have died due to drought and bark beetles in the state of California.

that was a year ago. we don't have forests in a lot of places, we have kindling.

i was up in kings canyon last year, and coming out of the canyon, looking at
the sides of the mountains, was stunning. in some places, a third of the trees are dead,
dried, and needing only a lightning strike. when they go, it's like a dried christmas tree
going up.

so, PG&E can be burnt at the stake, and then what do we do? Pg&E will reorganize, and
attorneys will feed over the carcass. broke or not, their wires are what keep a lot of
the stuff lit. nobody's gonna repossess the poles and transformer banks.

so, were they responsible and negligent, or were they just a handy target to blame?
the power on, power off? dilemma is one you can't win every time. sometimes you
make a bad call. sometimes i do. this time, they did.
 
Fulthrotl said:
don't hug. rake. i heard it on the internet. it must be true.
the problem we have is multifaceted, at least on the left coast.
and it has little to do with either politics, or utilities.

an awful lot of draught. and beetles.

Dec 11, 2017 - The U.S. Forest Service announced that a historic 129 million trees
on 8.9 million acres have died due to drought and bark beetles in the state of California.

that was a year ago. we don't have forests in a lot of places, we have kindling.

i was up in kings canyon last year, and coming out of the canyon, looking at
the sides of the mountains, was stunning. in some places, a third of the trees are dead,
dried, and needing only a lightning strike. when they go, it's like a dried christmas tree
going up.

so, PG&E can be burnt at the stake, and then what do we do? Pg&E will reorganize, and
attorneys will feed over the carcass. broke or not, their wires are what keep a lot of
the stuff lit. nobody's gonna repossess the poles and transformer banks.

so, were they responsible and negligent, or were they just a handy target to blame?
the power on, power off? dilemma is one you can't win every time. sometimes you
make a bad call. sometimes i do. this time, they did.
Click to expand...

I will make the observation that certain political interests have made damn sure that none of that standing timber will be harvested, even as firewood. Pretty much the same ones looking for PG&E scalps. Heads they win, tails you lose.
 
gadfly56 said:
I will make the observation that certain political interests have made damn sure that none of that standing timber will be harvested, even as firewood. Pretty much the same ones looking for PG&E scalps. Heads they win, tails you lose.
Click to expand...

i will see your observation, and raise you a possible insight......

after seeing some areas clear cut, the visceral act of many people is
to prevent anyone from doing anything, ever again. that's how we got here.

unfortunately, a forest fire, and clear cutting have the same effect,
except that the soot and ash are messy.

you can extract timber in a esthetically attractive manner, but not at a reasonable price.
 
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