Pictures Of Installs

[Alwayslearningelec]

Does anyone know a good place I can see pictures of installations and/or equipment? Trying to learn the business and I am not in the field so how the heck can I really achieve maximum knowledge.

Thanks.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Does anyone know a good place I can see pictures of installations and/or equipment? Trying to learn the business and I am not in the field so how the heck can I really achieve maximum knowledge.

Thanks.

If you are an estimator then go look at the jobs that your company gets. Pictures are good but not the same as a walk thru on a job. Have the foreman give you a tour and explain the job to you when it is roughed in and again at the end.

 

[roger]

Horsegoer, (I hope this question doesn't come off wrong) how did you get the position of an electrical estimator with no experience of the trade?

When I am estimating a project the actual labor and job expense numbers are from my experience in the field, these numbers from estimating programs are not accurate even though they can get you in the ball park.

You have to know how to put in adders for working on lifts, how many trades are going to jammed into the project at one time, what time of year the different portions of project are going to be done, how many employees the project will need (there is a lot of labor loss as the number goes up), how long will you be paying for storage units, etc.... then you have to decide how much you want or need the project and adjust from there.

Roger

 

[growler]

so how the heck can I really achieve maximum knowledge.

I climbed a high Tibetan mountain seeking wisdom from the "Great Oracle".

He gave me some really good advice.


He said, " Next time try useing the elevator".

Don't make things any harder than they need to be. As Roger suggest do walk thoroughs with job foremen but also study past job estimates to see how they turned out. People can often learn more from mistakes than anything else. A really smart person can even learn from the mistakes of others.

By the way I don't know any new jokes so I'm forced to use the old ones.

 

[JES2727]

Does anyone know a good place I can see pictures of installations and/or equipment? Trying to learn the business and I am not in the field so how the heck can I really achieve maximum knowledge.

Thanks.

Why not try an image search on Google? Or photobucket. Or snapfish.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Thanks everyone. ROger that was some good insight you gave. Well I was taken by a management person who was a friend of the family. Unfortunately he passed away. I also work with people who seem to get slightly annoyed when I ask some questions. Maybe I am at fault for wanted to know exactly how something is installed but feel it is necessary if someone is doing what I am doing. As far as going to the projects I don't think they will honor that request just yet but I'll see. Like I said in an earlier post I did buy MH basic electrical theory and will go from there.

Thanks again.

 

[cadpoint]

You have every right as the owner, builder, PM and user to qualify any service.
Besides the "Tell me of the service", why not ask, "Show me the service"!

I would think most of us would be glad to!

 

[brian john]

Roger:


I worked for a large outfit where several estimators had no field expierence, no higher level learning all OJT with other estimators. I just thought a guy froom the field would have been better suited.

 

[electricmanscott]

Roger:


I worked for a large outfit where several estimators had no field expierence, no higher level learning all OJT with other estimators. I just thought a guy froom the field would have been better suited.

I can't even begin to imagine trying to estimate with zero field experience. That is just crazy talk.

 

[Minuteman]

I can't even begin to imagine trying to estimate with zero field experience. That is just crazy talk.

I knew a young guy who was a crackerjack on the sales counter. A medium sized shop hired him to do take offs, and within less than a year he was their estimator. But, he was exceptional.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

BRIANJOHN......I agree. There are several people(about 80%) in my office with prior field experience. I think it makes for a better business to have guys/women who have done the work hands on. Hey, I am where I am...I'm trying to do my best.

Thanks............again.

 

[tyha]

The shop that raised me was one of Enr top 20 and they didn't like thier estimators to have field experience. The VP would constantly tell me that it is two totally different career classifications. He did not want a guys field experence to put any prejudice on his estimates. He was the same guy that taught me to not let FACTS get in the way of a good arguement. He first told me that one when we were in a battle over a $300,000 change order @ an airport project.

 

[Kdog76]

Yes, I agree with ELECTRICMANSCOTT. As a first year electrical contractor with nearly 10 years in the trade, I STILL see estimating as a 'whole other animal'. But without any past experience to draw on, estimating would be (dare I say) impossible. Sure, anybody can get a material price list, but how do you know WHAT materials you will need to be NEC compliant? To top it off how do know how many hours a particular job may involve? Maybe just me but I wouldn't dare to estimate any job in a field I am not familiar with.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

KDAWG, the jobs are design already. Materials and equipment are in the specs. Not too hard.........a 42 ckt panel for example I put in 2 hours............just kidding. Actually I was told to put in 28 hours for everything, terminations, interiors, handling. Everything.

 

[cschmid]

why would you need to have field experience to estimate..You got all types of books to give you basic time constraints and you are working off of engineers prints..all you need to do is some statistics and you can do as good of a job as any one..

biding does not know or care about how generals keep the job site or the coordination of the work being done that is why there are construction managers..met many of people who can estimate and never set eyes on the job site..

 

[roger]

why would you need to have field experience to estimate..You got all types of books to give you basic time constraints and you are working off of engineers prints..all you need to do is some statistics and you can do as good of a job as any one..

biding does not know or care about how generals keep the job site or the coordination of the work being done that is why there are construction managers..met many of people who can estimate and never set eyes on the job site..

Yeah right.

If I used Means for example, I'd probably win everthing I bid but I wouldn't bid many jobs due to bankruptcy. My main objective is to make a little money

Even when our estimators put a large project together using state of the art estimating programs and equipment, a project manager will be consulted for the practicle knowledge of putting the job in for the final number

As far as caring how a GC keeps the site, there are delays associated with dirty jobs, difficult access to the project, dangerous working conditions, etc..., these are real considerations in making money on long term projects.

There are also two sets of numbers I give to GC's, a GC that will help us through a project and we have historically made money with or a GC with a good reputation will get a good number, a GC that historically has been difficult to work with or is known to be hard on Sub contractors get's a not so good number or no quote at all, these final numbers/decisions come from feild experience.


Roger

 

[bbaumer]

Years ago when I was an estimator we would occassionally bring journeymen in the office to help do take-offs when we were swamped.

Most of them absolutely hated it. They could not sit at a desk staring at a print with a clicker, red pencil and highligher all day.

We graduated to a smart board digitizer and it was even worse.

Not to say they didn't have the skills, most did and could do the job they just hated not working with their hands.

 

[cschmid]

Yeah right.

If I used Means for example, I'd probably win everthing I bid but I wouldn't bid many jobs due to bankruptcy. My main objective is to make a little money

Even when our estimators put a large project together using state of the art estimating programs and equipment, a project manager will be consulted for the practicle knowledge of putting the job in for the final number

As far as caring how a GC keeps the site, there are delays associated with dirty jobs, difficult access to the project, dangerous working conditions, etc..., these are real considerations in making money on long term projects.

There are also two sets of numbers I give to GC's, a GC that will help us through a project and we have historically made money with or a GC with a good reputation will get a good number, a GC that historically has been difficult to work with or is known to be hard on Sub contractors get's a not so good number or no quote at all, these final numbers/decisions come from feild experience.


Roger

you rely on statistics and and experience from the project manager (like me). so you can do the job if you consult the people in your organization for help..yet you do need to know what questions to ask and whom to ask them to..means is not a bad base line to work with..yet we are not in the charity business..:grin:

 

[cschmid]

After thinking about this for a moment or 2..I have another question for those companies who have estimators..Do your estimators do the bid and submit them on their own..or do you have an approval system..if you have an approval system how does it work..

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

In my comapny it is reviewed with the cheif estimator then upper management gives it a final look as far as mark ups and other things.