Pigtailling copper clad Aluminum?

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sparkywatts

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Is it necessary to pigtail or to replace with colar devices a dwelling unit that was wired with copper clad aluminum? I inspected a co-op appartment and every thing seemed fine but the board said they wanted pigtailling or colar devices. I can understand if it is straight aluminum wire. Also, are the purple wirenuts acceptable? I thought they were for repair use only.
 
Necessary or just smart

Necessary or just smart

One rule in my business that I follow is to error on the side of safety. I think that it makes good sense even if not specifically called out in the NEC (2005) to pigtail the copper clad aluminum conductors to a stranded copper conductor. This pigtail to the respective device with an approved method, either: co/alr compression sleeve or a mechanical means such as the "alumiconn" tap connection device (on 15 & 20 amp circuits). One other advantage is it also removes the burden of having to determine if all of the devices are appropriately rated as co/alr.
Where you have direction from the owner in doing this preventative maintenance, it should be a slam-dunk. If I lived in this building or it was mine there's no question that I would pigtail out all the connections.

By reviewing NEC 2005 sections 110-5, 110-14b and 310-13 you can arrive at your own conclusion.

Also with respect to the "twist-on" approved connections I'd be wary, crimp it with a good mechanical means and be finished with it.
 
cowboyjwc said:
If he's pigtailing he's going to have an al to cu connection anyways and I wouldn't touch anything you didn't need to, meaning if there's a neutral in a switch box, leave it alone.
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Yes I was just pointing out the fact that many people dont know the listing is only for cu/al . To help enlighten others on the proper means in case you need to go al/al. I see people using these wirenuts as a cureall for aluminum.
 
quogueelectric said:
Yes I was just pointing out the fact that many people dont know the listing is only for cu/al . To help enlighten others on the proper means in case you need to go al/al. I see people using these wirenuts as a cureall for aluminum.
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Wonder why it is such a listing issue? I put in some plain old wire nuts filled with de-ox years ago. Recent visits have shown that some I put in about 30 years ago are still are in place with no problems, both Al-Al and Al-Cu.
 
The purple wire nuts are for AL to CU only.

Copper Clad AL would not be ok.

Acording to what I remember, copper clad can be even more tricky than AL. If you nick the copper coating, the AL underneath is even worse than the regular AL wire.
I replaced all the devices in a house with copper clad once. I very carefully stripped and formed each conductor around the screw of the devices. Held up just fine.

From the UL guide:

Terminals of 15 and 20 A receptacles not marked "CO/ALR" are for use with copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors only. Terminals marked "CO/ALR" are for use with aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum conductors.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073992975&sequence=1
 
sandsnow said:
The purple wire nuts are for AL to CU only.
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That makes no sense. They are listed for some combinations that have more than one Al conductor. I guess you could pigtail a Cu conductor if you wanted to follow the listing, or just use common sense.
 
mivey said:
That makes no sense. They are listed for some combinations that have more than one Al conductor. I guess you could pigtail a Cu conductor if you wanted to follow the listing, or just use common sense.
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Just looked on ideals site looks like it only lists 1al cond with 1 or 2 cu conductors if I read it correct. I dont know if that means copper clad is not considered copper. I'd say an ahj ruling.
 
jwjrw said:
Just looked on ideals site looks like it only lists 1al cond with 1 or 2 cu conductors if I read it correct. I dont know if that means copper clad is not considered copper. I'd say an ahj ruling.
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In addition to the Cu-Cu:

1 #10 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU sol.
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU str.
1 #12 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol or str
1 #12 AL str. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU

Ideal # 65
 
mivey said:
In addition to the Cu-Cu:

1 #10 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU sol.
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU str.
1 #12 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol or str
1 #12 AL str. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU

Ideal # 65
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How I looked at that and didnt see 2 al when I looked I dont know,:-?
Its been a long day I guess
 
jwjrw said:
Just looked on ideals site looks like it only lists 1al cond with 1 or 2 cu conductors if I read it correct. I dont know if that means copper clad is not considered copper. I'd say an ahj ruling.
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I tried looking this up at UL. What to do about copper-clad is unclear at best and could be read either way depending on how you want it to read.
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073996457&sequence=1

Ideal says AL to CU only. No AL to AL
http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf

I would say call IDEAL and get there take as a next step.
 
mivey said:
Wonder why it is such a listing issue? I put in some plain old wire nuts filled with de-ox years ago. Recent visits have shown that some I put in about 30 years ago are still are in place with no problems, both Al-Al and Al-Cu.
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Failure rate is totally dependant upon install practices AND load on the joint. As most know most al wire failures are usually close to the panel where there is the highest load.
 
quogueelectric said:
Failure rate is totally dependant upon install practices AND load on the joint. As most know most al wire failures are usually close to the panel where there is the highest load.
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Issues with old AL here are usally at the receptacle and not the panel. The wires get loose after years or having things plugged in and out. Seen loose wires at panel but far mare burnt receptacles.
 
According to the original CPSC report on aluminum wiring, copper clad aluminum wiring did not pose the same hazard that aluminum wiring did.

If you still feel the need to pigtail, the King Industries product costs about the same as the Ideal purples, they just take a bit longer to install, and you need to order them instead of picking them up at the local big box. They are rated AL/AL or CU/AL.
 
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