pigtails
- Thread starter mfige
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BAHTAH
Senior Member
- Location
- United States
Re: pigtails
210-19(A)(2) Conductors of branch circuits supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug connected portable loads shall have an ampacity of not less than the rating of the branch circuit. Your tap conductors need to be 20amp rated.
210-19(A)(2) Conductors of branch circuits supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug connected portable loads shall have an ampacity of not less than the rating of the branch circuit. Your tap conductors need to be 20amp rated.
Re: pigtails
There can be a good debate concerning the manufacturer reducing the conductor ampacity within the device. This is electrically the same thing as a short pigtail of #14 to the device.
The tap only supplies one receptacle.
[ May 29, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
There can be a good debate concerning the manufacturer reducing the conductor ampacity within the device. This is electrically the same thing as a short pigtail of #14 to the device.
The tap only supplies one receptacle.
[ May 29, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
Re: pigtails
Mfige, why would you want to? Is it because you want to backstab the device? If this is the case you would be violating the listing of the device.
I don't have my UL books here, but I think it is stated that using the back stab installation is only for 15 amp circuits, hence the reason these devices no longer accept wire larger than #14. They use to accept #12
Roger
Mfige, why would you want to? Is it because you want to backstab the device? If this is the case you would be violating the listing of the device.
I don't have my UL books here, but I think it is stated that using the back stab installation is only for 15 amp circuits, hence the reason these devices no longer accept wire larger than #14. They use to accept #12
Roger
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: pigtails
I can only think of two reasons someone would want do this.
1) To be able to use the speedwire terminals on 20 amp circuits.
2) 12 AWG solid is to hard to bend, :roll: which if this is the case, you can get wirenuts with stranded pigtails already attached and they have fork terminals for connection to the device.
Term a Nuts
I can only think of two reasons someone would want do this.
1) To be able to use the speedwire terminals on 20 amp circuits.
2) 12 AWG solid is to hard to bend, :roll: which if this is the case, you can get wirenuts with stranded pigtails already attached and they have fork terminals for connection to the device.
Term a Nuts
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: pigtails
Roger, we think much alike
You must have been posting while I was chasing down the Term a Nut links.
Bob
Roger, we think much alike
You must have been posting while I was chasing down the Term a Nut links.
Bob
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: pigtails
more likely you had no problem working with solid 12 and did not need this expensive gizmo.
I have never used these either, I just remembered seeing them in a catalog.
I doubt that very muchOriginally posted by roger:
I must lead a sheltered life.
more likely you had no problem working with solid 12 and did not need this expensive gizmo.I have never used these either, I just remembered seeing them in a catalog.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: pigtails
This is from the Mike Holt newsletter. I use those gizmos and I like them.
Q8. I have an issue where a contractor used 15A, 125V receptacles on a 20A circuit with 12 AWG conductors. In addition, the contractor used 14 AWG tap conductors to the 15A receptacles. I feel that a 20A rated receptacle is required and the conductors to the receptacle shall be a minimum 12 AWG. Am I right?
A8. Almost. A 15A rated receptacle can be connected to a 20A branch circuit that supplies two or more receptacles (this would include a single duplex receptacle, because it contains two receptacles) [210.21(B)(3)]. However, the tap rule contained in 210.19(A)(4) Ex. 1(c) clearly states that branch circuit taps are not permitted for receptacles. So the 15A receptacles are fine, as long as there are at least two of them on a circuit, but the 14 AWG pigtails are a Code violation.
This is from the Mike Holt newsletter. I use those gizmos and I like them.
Q8. I have an issue where a contractor used 15A, 125V receptacles on a 20A circuit with 12 AWG conductors. In addition, the contractor used 14 AWG tap conductors to the 15A receptacles. I feel that a 20A rated receptacle is required and the conductors to the receptacle shall be a minimum 12 AWG. Am I right?
A8. Almost. A 15A rated receptacle can be connected to a 20A branch circuit that supplies two or more receptacles (this would include a single duplex receptacle, because it contains two receptacles) [210.21(B)(3)]. However, the tap rule contained in 210.19(A)(4) Ex. 1(c) clearly states that branch circuit taps are not permitted for receptacles. So the 15A receptacles are fine, as long as there are at least two of them on a circuit, but the 14 AWG pigtails are a Code violation.
Re: pigtails
Thanks,electricmanscott!!! Although it makes absolutely no sense since Table 210-21(b)(2) states that the maximum permissible cord & plug load on a 15A rated receptacle is 12A - the cord on that 1500W hair dryer you plug in will have a maximum 16 gauge wire. That 6" #14 pigtail presents quite a hazard, huh???
Mark
Thanks,electricmanscott!!! Although it makes absolutely no sense since Table 210-21(b)(2) states that the maximum permissible cord & plug load on a 15A rated receptacle is 12A - the cord on that 1500W hair dryer you plug in will have a maximum 16 gauge wire. That 6" #14 pigtail presents quite a hazard, huh???
Mark
Re: pigtails
Mfige,
Now, as far as 210.21(B)(2) is concerned, how are you as an installer going to keep some one from cutting a 20 amp cord cap off and installing a 15 amp cord cap on a device?
Answer, you aren't.
If you are given the information of the "cord and plug" connected device in your design, you would have some control, otherwise, you trust the manufacturers to adhere to NEMA standards, ie cord caps to comply with the NEC.
Roger
Mfige,
This 1500W hair dryer is pumping itself up to a crash and burn rounded figure.
Now, as far as 210.21(B)(2) is concerned, how are you as an installer going to keep some one from cutting a 20 amp cord cap off and installing a 15 amp cord cap on a device?
Answer, you aren't.
If you are given the information of the "cord and plug" connected device in your design, you would have some control, otherwise, you trust the manufacturers to adhere to NEMA standards, ie cord caps to comply with the NEC.
Roger
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: pigtails
mfige, whether or not the 6" of 14 AWG is a hazard or not, it is a code violation as pointed out by electricmanscott.
Why do you feel the need to do this?
What is the problem in using the pieces of 12 AWG that you cut off when cutting in, it seems to work for most of us?
mfige, whether or not the 6" of 14 AWG is a hazard or not, it is a code violation as pointed out by electricmanscott.
Why do you feel the need to do this?
What is the problem in using the pieces of 12 AWG that you cut off when cutting in, it seems to work for most of us?
Re: pigtails
IWIRE
It's just that it is alot easier to fold #14 into a box, especially when using romex & plastic boxes where you have 3 wires affixed to the receptacle.
I guess, bottom line, is I have a problem with the inconsistencies in the code - i.e. allowing wires to be stabbed into the back of a receptacle instead of properly twisted together & pigtailed - all the houses that were allowed to be built w/ 1 GFI in the garage feeding all the bathroom receptacles instead of requiring a separate 20A circuit for each bathroom as I have been doing for the last 25+ years on any house I have wired. Just a little common sense, that's all!!!
IWIRE
It's just that it is alot easier to fold #14 into a box, especially when using romex & plastic boxes where you have 3 wires affixed to the receptacle.
I guess, bottom line, is I have a problem with the inconsistencies in the code - i.e. allowing wires to be stabbed into the back of a receptacle instead of properly twisted together & pigtailed - all the houses that were allowed to be built w/ 1 GFI in the garage feeding all the bathroom receptacles instead of requiring a separate 20A circuit for each bathroom as I have been doing for the last 25+ years on any house I have wired. Just a little common sense, that's all!!!
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: pigtails
this is my simple thumb of rule for the pigtail splices is use the same wire as the wires in the box have it if have 12 ga wire then i use 12 ga wires if have 14 ga wire then i use 14 ga wire that drict and simple . hey bob yeah i use the fancy term a nut few time but the cost kinda expesive most common is grounding set up aka green nuts with green wire allready there .
benie you want to know the cost diffrence between 15 amp repectailes devices compared to 20 amps devices?? well it depend on what grade itself like standard grade ; premuim grade aka commercal grade ; and industral grade that is kinda of top of line devices but mainaly it depend on where it goes and how it will be used myself for home i use standard grade excet kitchen i go with commercal grade ( they get alot of use ) i do not know what your suppiler charge for 20 amps devices veris 15 amps but cost wise it should be about 20 percent diffrince maybe i am wrong other wise use the common sense where it will set up
merci marc
this is my simple thumb of rule for the pigtail splices is use the same wire as the wires in the box have it if have 12 ga wire then i use 12 ga wires if have 14 ga wire then i use 14 ga wire that drict and simple . hey bob yeah i use the fancy term a nut few time but the cost kinda expesive most common is grounding set up aka green nuts with green wire allready there .
benie you want to know the cost diffrence between 15 amp repectailes devices compared to 20 amps devices?? well it depend on what grade itself like standard grade ; premuim grade aka commercal grade ; and industral grade that is kinda of top of line devices but mainaly it depend on where it goes and how it will be used myself for home i use standard grade excet kitchen i go with commercal grade ( they get alot of use ) i do not know what your suppiler charge for 20 amps devices veris 15 amps but cost wise it should be about 20 percent diffrince maybe i am wrong
other wise use the common sense where it will set up merci marc
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: pigtails
Mfige, Wouldnt't you always have at least three wires attached to the receptacle?
[ May 30, 2003, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
Mfige, Wouldnt't you always have at least three wires attached to the receptacle?
[ May 30, 2003, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
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