Plaster Work

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ashtrak

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I'd like to pick a few brains RE: Plaster work and mounting box's in same.

I have a couple of jobs coming up where I'll be re-wiring houses with plaster walls.
It's been awhile since I've worked in plaster walls. I remember useing plastic box's and being able to hit some of the lathe though the ear holes with screws.

Is there a better method, as sometimes I remember the lath being cracked or broken off where I couldn't hit it with screws.

The houses are balloon construction so fishing from attic and basement don't seem as though it will be an issue.

There is no K&T involved just armour cable, I'm going to cut out all the old box's.

I'm working on a price now. Thanks.
 
I would use cut-in (old work) boxes and not fiddle with the rest. Get a diamond blade for either a dremel or rotozip or a last resort sawzall to make clean cuts.
 
I like deep metal cut in boxes with madison clips, good for AC or romex. If only using romex, the plastic cut ins with screws if necassary will work fine. Plaster is difficult no matter how you do it. Good luck
 
I use standard metal boxes, trace out the box, then I use my screwdriver and lineman's and chip out the outline, stay to the inside of the line, then I cut out either the metal chicken coop wire or the wood lathe... Only way I will ever do it, never had to patch either...
 
mdshunk said:
I've been using Smart Boxes for over a year now, with fantastic results! I see Arlington has ripped off the idea now.
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I'm so smart I used to just screw a listed sheetrock screw thru the side of a allied molded box...:grin:
 
mdshunk said:
I've been using Smart Boxes for over a year now, with fantastic results! I see Arlington has ripped off the idea now.
Click to expand...

They sure did, and a bad copy of the smart box, I asked for smart boxes. and they shipped the Arlington junk, we had to fight with every box to route the wires in, and had to use bushings. For just a few pennies more, you can get a real smart box, and save a lot of time in labor.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I'm so smart I used to just screw a listed sheetrock screw thru the side of a allied molded box...:grin:
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You've obviously never used them, then.

For those that rewire old homes with Romex, you need to try Smart Boxes. They're the cat's back side.

I'm a HUGE Arlington Industries fan too, but their rip-off of the Smart Box misses the mark, in my opinion. They're a bit cheaper, but they frustrate me.
 
ashtrak said:
I'd like to pick a few brains RE: Plaster work and mounting box's in same.
Click to expand...
Here's my set-up...use it for many different applictions:

Rotozip (I recommend a CORDED model...I've burnt out too many cordless models)
RZ10tool_RZ_pd.jpg


Circle Cutter ~ Rotozip #CRCT1
CRCT1_pd.jpg


Vacuum attachment ~ Roto-zip #RZVAC1
RZVAC1_RZ_pd.jpg


Vacuum ~ Dewalt DC-500 Corded/cordless
DC500_1.gif


Just pick the RIGHT BITS
You'll need one for the plaster, one for the wood.(If plaster and wood lath)


SWEET

No mess...no clean-up...done
 
boboelectric said:
Careful using a RotoZip in old houses with lots of coal dust in the walls.Have a fire extinguisher handy.
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Your taking away all the fun, let then have a little excitment.

Years ago, we were to start a rewire on an older home, when we arrived in the morning, the plumber was already there working, he asked if we could come back in a few hours, and the area would be clear to work, so we head to the local grease pit for a bite to eat, while we were there, we seen fire trucks flying past the place, even commented there must be a big fire somewhere, so after hanging there for while we headed back to the job, two blocks from the job a police officer has the street blocked, officer we need to get up the street, we have a job there, oh where exactly are you going, we tell him the address, and he replies no house there now.
It seems the plumber working in the basement, set the coal dust in the walls on fire and the house was gone in minutes.

A Rotozip in an older home with coal dust, is like using a match, to find the gas can.
 
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satcom said:
It seems the plumber working in the basement, set the coal dust in the walls on fire and the house was gone in minutes.
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That's certainly a reality in my area. They even used cinders to fire-stop the party wall between two units. Cut a receptacle in that wall, and you'll have 50 lbs of ever-flowing cinders coming out of your box hole cutout. Fun, fun.
 
Those are nice products, but the method is important too.

I personally use metal old-works. The ears on the blue plastic ones create that extra lip on the surface of the wall.

First locate the studs to either side of the general area you want to put your receptacle or switch. If your stud-finder isn't working properly (due to the various densities of materials involved) you can also look for other clues. One such clue is to look at the baseboard and look for tiny round imprints where the finish nails were driven into the studs. They will be painted over but usually you can still see them.

Then measure the distance from the floor that you will want the device and punch a hole with your screwdriver into the plaster between the studs you previously located. Either your screwdriver will only go through the plaster and hit the lathe, or it will punch right through in between the lathe. This is not going to be an exact distance, but don't worry I will cover you on the hole.

Depending on if you punch right through or hit lathe you will do the following:

Lathe: Gently but firmly punch a hole just above your first hole to see if you still hit lathe. Continue to do this (anywhere between 1-5 punches) until you finally hit the space in between the lathe. Then go back to your original hole and repeat the process going down. Skip past the next paragraph.

Space in between lathe: You've already found the first gap so decide if you would like the box centered slightly above that or below that. Work in that direction and gently but firmly punch another hole above or below your first one. Continue doing that until you find the next gap. Resist the temptation to move the screwdriver 1/2" at a time. It is worth knowing for sure that you are traveling along lathe and don't have some other unknown situation arise. Once you find the gap, continue on.

Now that you have found the exact position of the lathe, center your box on the lathe and trace it out. If you have a roto-zip of some sort with the proper bits (haha, don't use plastic or wood bits) you can use that, but sometimes it can be messy unless you have all the fancy attachments. If you have a helper you can have him hold a vacuum. If you have neither, you can use the screwdriver punching method to cut out all of the plaster. Most times the plaster is brittle so make sure you are careful.

If you are using metal boxes I highly suggest also chipping out the plaster around the ears then reset them to proper box depth so it will be flush. Now use either your rotozip bit or your keyhole saw to cut out the lathe. If you use the keyhole saw remember the plaster is brittle and the wood flexible! Also do not accidentally cut the lathe where your ears are supposed to be! Now your box will be nicely centered with the ears firmly resting on the lathe for a good hold on the mounting screws.
 
jaylectricity said:
Those are nice products, but the method is important too.

I personally use metal old-works. The ears on the blue plastic ones create that extra lip on the surface of the wall.

Also do not accidentally cut the lathe where your ears are supposed to be![
Click to expand...

We got away from metal boxes, with the smart box you don't need to wory where the lath is for your ears, and the smart box does not have an extra lip, also the smart box is more secure, then depending on the old lath or madison holders to secure the boxm try one and you may be supprised at the ease of installing and how secure the box is.
 
satcom said:
We got away from metal boxes, with the smart box you don't need to wory where the lath is for your ears, and the smart box does not have an extra lip, also the smart box is more secure, then depending on the old lath or madison holders to secure the boxm try one and you may be supprised at the ease of installing and how secure the box is.
Click to expand...

I just looked at the link from the first page. I remember seeing those at the supply house. I'll probably give one a try. At any rate, thanks. I was just posting that method for informational purposes.
 
Plaster Work

barbeer said:
I would use cut-in (old work) boxes and not fiddle with the rest. Get a diamond blade for either a dremel or rotozip or a last resort sawzall to make clean cuts.
Click to expand...
I do this all the time and I have found that the way (barbeer )quoted is the best method. I also take a knife and cut the outline of the box and use my small screw driver and tap out the outline of the box. Then I use my rotozip. I used to use my sawzall but you have to be really careful. I have found the rotozip does great. Also cut the lath farther away from the stud first then cut the lath closest to the stud last that will give it support better and it will not vibrate and damage the plaster. Semper Fi. Buddy P.S. I also have found that the old work boxes with the flange in the back work better than the new ones that have small flanges at the top and bottom. Also sometimes I replace the screw that holes the flang with a longer screw so that the flang will go back far enough to catch the lath.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Don't see the advantage as far as using them... ??? Just one more thing I have to stock
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Thats because you haven't used them. :smile:
This application is ideal for them. No need to worry about the plaster supporting the box. More space than a metal box. Just a good all around product.
 
electricmanscott said:
Thats because you haven't used them. :smile:
This application is ideal for them. No need to worry about the plaster supporting the box. More space than a metal box. Just a good all around product.
Click to expand...


I guess I will just have to try one... :smile:
 
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