Plc cabinets
- Thread starter lejos
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
lejos said:
I am not sure what you mean by labor units, but you need a consistent way to deal with the labor estimates on a job by job basis.
By the way, you will get your head handed to you by the people that do it for a living if you try to do it with "real" electricians. It is a totally different ball game. People who are very good at running pipe and pulling wire just do not compete very well against panel wirers. Superficially, it would appear to be quite similar, but you will get hosed if you try it that way. There are a fair number of ECs who have panel shops as well, but none that I know of use their field electricians to wire panels, with a couple of exceptions here and there for non-economic reasons.
Investigate what it takes to get UL508a listing, since many panels need that these days. I think the up front cost is no more than 100-200 hours of your time and $5000-10,000.
You may want to see if you can link up with one or more control engineers/designers that you can use on a contract basis for startup, programming, and drawings. Many places want that one stop shopping approach, and you will lose out on the most lucrative projects if you have no means at all of servicing those customers.
Remember that the barrier to entry in this market is very low. A lot of panel builders started up in someone's garage or pole barn. You can start a panel shop on a shoestring budget and still be quite credible.
Don't be surprised if the profit margin is not anywhere near what your normal EC margin is. There is plenty of existing panel building supply out there, and the demand is not really growing. You need to find some kind of niche.
The cost of getting new business is insane. A typical salesman may well cost you $100,000/year after wages, benefits, and expenses. You have to sell a LOT of PLC boxes to get that back.
Existing panel builders usually have contracts with suppliers that allow them to purchase components at very favorable prices. I am not able to tell you anything specific (trade secrets and all that) but I have seen multipliers in the teens for certain things.
And don't forget testing and inspection. No customers I am aware of will accept a cabinet that has not at the very least been rung out and powered up. It can take 20% of the your shop labor just for testing and inspection.
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petersonra said:
We are one of those contractors, that does panel building projects, as was noted: "Don't be surprised if the profit margin is not anywhere near what your normal EC margin is. There is plenty of existing panel building supply out there, and the demand is not really growing."
I know companies with a DCS will pay more than for a PLC. Will you be doing the programming? If so good luck. There are guys out there that can use one function you never heard of that will replace 5 rungs. They know there stuff (Not saying you don't). We sent out a project for bid one year. came in $22,000 or so. Next year we did the second unit same panel and equipment, but this time we use last years drawings. New price is $10,000. They company that built it for us last year did not get the bid. Lowest bidder got the job. Then you most likely will need a PE to get the drawings approved (Not 100% sure on that) If I was going into this business I would do DCS. Delta V Well just my 2 cents.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
khixxx said:
PLC and DCS are two different worlds as well, although PLCs can do most anything a DCS can, although the reverse is not necessarily true. Much of the DCS market is dominated by the DCS venders themselves, and what is farmed out is often done so through the DCS vender (either formally or informally).
I can't recall ever seeing a PE stamp on a typical control panel drawing. And I have seen thousands of them.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
We do some minor plc & control cab work and I agree with others, this part of it is not a major money maker for us. We are to slow and testing requires almost an identical set up for inputs, outputs and feed back that are in the field. We make more money before and after the PLC control cab work. On the plus side it is very interesting, keeps me busy for weeks at a time, and for us, each job is different.
ptonsparky said:
Yup, that is where the green is before, and after, not the build itself, we do the testing, and set up on site.
The OP's profile showes he is a contractor, so he may be intrested in also doing the field work.
Attached is a pic of a typical PLC control we build, field install and setup.
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solaeros
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- Beautiful IDAHO
PLC and DCS are two different worlds as well, although PLCs can do most anything a DCS can, although the reverse is not necessarily true. Much of the DCS market is dominated by the DCS venders themselves, and what is farmed out is often done so through the DCS
Every ISA instructor would cringe to hear that. Wouldn't you say PLC's are generally an integral part of a DCS?
Every ISA instructor would cringe to hear that. Wouldn't you say PLC's are generally an integral part of a DCS?
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