PLC programmable logic controllers

[Jpflex]

The former mine site I worked at shut down due to loss of investor funding. Over the past two years I worked there, older style and sometimes obsolete equipment was acquired cheap through auctions.

Often times we used older style NEMA 00 to 4 Cutler Hammer starters with replaceable overload heaters for motors, ranging from fractional horsepower to 100 horsepower. The company even had old pneumatic time delay relays which relied on air to exit a baffle to mechanically activate a switch, which has obviously been replaced with solid state devices.

Is it typical for PLCs to replace motor starters with overload protection and separate OCPD and where does NEC specify rules for calculating OL and OLPD using PLCs, as I’ve only seen NEC mention combination motor protection controllers? (Is that it?)

Now that I’ve been on the job market I’ve noticed that business no longer use these older style equipment. It’s apparent I’m going to now have to become a computer geek programmer just to be relevant now.

My question is can anyone recommend text books on learning to navigate computers software and getting familiar with building circuits on a pc software for modern PLC’s with unfamiliar symbols? I noticed Allen Bradley PLCs are popular.

I usually buy cheap books on eBay $5-20 each. The cost of standard school tuition, books, and classroom time is not feasible. Thanks

 

[zbang]

A lot depends on your existing knowledge base, and things like even the most modern motor overload shouldn't be difficult.

For learning, there's a lot of stuff online (free) and on these forums (also free). For basic computer skills, the "for Dummies" books are a good starting point as is youtube. The search "plc simulation software free" will turn up some useful stuff, too.

 

[ptonsparky]

I used the simple PLCs with mostly ladder logic symbol. AB was good stuff but it was overkill and pricey for what I was doing. Automation Direct offers various products with usually free software. I never branched out from those two suppliers. Good support from both.

 

[Jpflex]

A lot depends on your existing knowledge base, and things like even the most modern motor overload shouldn't be difficult.

For learning, there's a lot of stuff online (free) and on these forums (also free). For basic computer skills, the "for Dummies" books are a good starting point as is youtube. The search "plc simulation software free" will turn up some useful stuff, too.

I have had a license for the FCC central electronics tech association as well as electrical certification. I know how to build and troubleshoot real world circuits, but doing this virtually or in simulation on a computer rather than real life is different.

What I don’t know is how to navigate these plc softwares and how to determine or assign controller ports etc. additionally I am not familiar with all these new schematic symbols to substitute former electronic symbols. I did find an interesting book at Barnes and nobles however. Has anyone read or would recommend this?

 

[herding_cats]

I can help. I have a simple PLC system that uses ladder logic and it's easy to use. Email me at droemail@gmail.com and I can send you some info. Get you started on learning the programming process.

I'm also a Yaskawa dealer and can get you into drives cost effective.

 

[Jpflex]

I can help. I have a simple PLC system that uses ladder logic and it's easy to use. Email me at droemail@gmail.com and I can send you some info. Get you started on learning the programming process.

I'm also a Yaskawa dealer and can get you into drives cost effective.

Ok thanks, im sending you an email from jayley58@gmail.com

I spoke to my old lineman coworker and he said he wasted 2 years taking plc courses when he could have just learned it on his own. Perhaps schools drag on a subject for money?

 

[zbang]

Classrooms aren't always the best way to learn - some folks can plough through a book and absorb everything, some people need to watch it happen (youtube instructional videos are popular), some just need to put their hands on the machine.

One thing that training courses can bring is problems to solve, not everyone is good at coming up with useful things to try.

 

[tthh]

I pasted a link to insgtructions for an emulator for some Allen Bradley PLC's you can play around with. I have not set this up myself, so I'm not 100% sure the instructions are solid. I second AutomationDirect.com, it is a good place for control stuff. I found the PLC stuff and AutomationDirect when the TKE residential elevator in my house broke down and I had to fix it -- a long story there. One of the previous owners put it in, but it does come in handy sometimes. It uses an AB PLC controller.

How to download RSLogix 500, RSLogix 500 Emulate, and RSLinx for free [Updated 2024]

An EASY step-by-step guide on how to download RSLogix500, RSLogix500 Emulate, and RSLinx for FREE!

www.solisplc.com

 

[TwoBlocked]

I have had a license for the FCC central electronics tech association as well as electrical certification. I know how to build and troubleshoot real world circuits, but doing this virtually or in simulation on a computer rather than real life is different.

What I don’t know is how to navigate these plc softwares and how to determine or assign controller ports etc. additionally I am not familiar with all these new schematic symbols to substitute former electronic symbols. I did find an interesting book at Barnes and nobles however. Has anyone read or would recommend this?

I feel your pain! I became proficient with Modicon PLC ladder logic, then things shifted more toward function block. But when pushed into another brand of PLC I am out in the weeds. Now I am with an outfit that is into ABB Totalflow products. I contacted ABB for a programming manual. The reply was that there wasn't one, you have to use the help menus!!! AND it turns out that the help menus are only available for the physical modules actually installed on the PLC. Like, if you want to know how to program their valve control module, you have to have one already installed on the PLC!!!

But, for me, the real leap is getting the communication going right. The evolution from electro-mechanical to PLC has been followed by hardwired to communications.

How to learn it? To become proficient can be a BIG investment. Time is money. I think the best route to chose in any situation depends on the situation and what's available.

Heck, the company has an in-house school for programming, and the guys coming back aren't proficient... Looking for an answer myself. Maybe it's like asking how to get to Carnegie Hall - practice, practice, practice. We have a guru that we contract to do much of it.

 

[ptonsparky]

I pasted a link to insgtructions for an emulator for some Allen Bradley PLC's you can play around with. I have not set this up myself, so I'm not 100% sure the instructions are solid. I second AutomationDirect.com, it is a good place for control stuff. I found the PLC stuff and AutomationDirect when the TKE residential elevator in my house broke down and I had to fix it -- a long story there. One of the previous owners put it in, but it does come in handy sometimes. It uses an AB PLC controller.

How to download RSLogix 500, RSLogix 500 Emulate, and RSLinx for free [Updated 2024]

An EASY step-by-step guide on how to download RSLogix500, RSLogix500 Emulate, and RSLinx for FREE!

www.solisplc.com

That link may prove useful. I managed to erase something vital for RS 500 and can't get into it anymore. I mostly taught myself how on it. I have the original disks somewhere.

 

[Teaser2]

I have been programming Allen Bradley, Siemens, GE Fanuc, Indramat, Omron etc. PLCs and HMIs and Fanuc and Motoman Robotic Controls equipment/systems for over 30 years

I design, install and program control systems using Rockwell product lines both hardware and software such as PLC5, Logix500, logix5000, CCW, FTViewSE, ME, Studio, RSView32, Panelbuilder32, GE Fanuc, Siemens S7,TIA Portal, Omron Sysmac Studio, CX-one, WinCC, 840 D, 840DSL etc. PLCs and HMIs.

The communication protocols you will see are EthernetIP, EtherCat, DH+, Modbus, Profibus, Profinet, BacNet, Device-net etc.

If I did not misunderstand what you stated about PLCs replacing motor starts; PLCs only control the control signals to the starters, valves, contactors, relays etc. (I/Os as inputs and outputs) you will still use the power transmitting devices, components etc. PLCs do not control the actual O.L. setting etc. Single and 3 phase power is still independently provided.

In addition to the recommendations listed, you may be able to download Rockwell's CCW (Connected Components Workbench) software which does not require any license. CCW includes PLC, HMI and Motion ( VFDs etc.) All-In-One to practice. Create an account online for download

Download Center | Rockwell Automation

Access the Rockwell Automation Download Center to keep your products current. This includes the latest add-on profiles (AOPs), drivers, macros, electronic data sheets, sample code, and software activations.

www.rockwellautomation.com

Also, watch YouTube videos that will help you.

You will see that most PLC instructions have the same concept in all platforms such as N.O (normally open) XIO, N.C (normally closed) XIC, TIM (Timers), CTU (counter up). MOV (move) . COP (copy) and a lot more instructions like FIFO ( first in fist out) etc. if they are available.

For example, you will make the connection, understand how it works with your experience in the field that your DI ( Digital Input) is a Start PB ( push button) coming to the PLCs' s input card and your DO( digital output) will go to the coil of the starter, relay, valve etc. Same for AI, AO-analog input and output for temperature , pressure , flow etc.

You will do fine and good luck!

 

[ptonsparky]

Communications is my downfall.
You will need to learn HMIs because that is where the fun starts as it makes everything meld together.
Sign up for an online forum and read.
My experience level is beginner compared to others here.
Buy a low end HMI & PLC, then make your own demo kit. with feedback displaying on the HMI.
Add a 1ph to 3ph drive, relatively inexpensive, with a small 3 phase motor having the most cost.

 

[hillbilly1]

Do you act

The former mine site I worked at shut down due to loss of investor funding. Over the past two years I worked there, older style and sometimes obsolete equipment was acquired cheap through auctions.

Often times we used older style NEMA 00 to 4 Cutler Hammer starters with replaceable overload heaters for motors, ranging from fractional horsepower to 100 horsepower. The company even had old pneumatic time delay relays which relied on air to exit a baffle to mechanically activate a switch, which has obviously been replaced with solid state devices.

Is it typical for PLCs to replace motor starters with overload protection and separate OCPD and where does NEC specify rules for calculating OL and OLPD using PLCs, as I’ve only seen NEC mention combination motor protection controllers? (Is that it?)

Now that I’ve been on the job market I’ve noticed that business no longer use these older style equipment. It’s apparent I’m going to now have to become a computer geek programmer just to be relevant now.

My question is can anyone recommend text books on learning to navigate computers software and getting familiar with building circuits on a pc software for modern PLC’s with unfamiliar symbols? I noticed Allen Bradley PLCs are popular.

I usually buy cheap books on eBay $5-20 each. The cost of standard school tuition, books, and classroom time is not feasible. Thanks

mean vid’s? I feel your pain, I had to use two different manufacturers on a bridge crane recently, and the instructions are very bad for both. Finally figured out through trial and error. The YouTube videos tell everything but what you need to know, the install manuals are for someone that went through school on the product.

 

[ptonsparky]

The former mine site I worked at shut down due to loss of investor funding. Over the past two years I worked there, older style and sometimes obsolete equipment was acquired cheap through auctions.

Often times we used older style NEMA 00 to 4 Cutler Hammer starters with replaceable overload heaters for motors, ranging from fractional horsepower to 100 horsepower. The company even had old pneumatic time delay relays which relied on air to exit a baffle to mechanically activate a switch, which has obviously been replaced with solid state devices.

Is it typical for PLCs to replace motor starters with overload protection and separate OCPD and where does NEC specify rules for calculating OL and OLPD using PLCs, as I’ve only seen NEC mention combination motor protection controllers? (Is that it?) NO, the PLC controls the starter or VFD.

Now that I’ve been on the job market I’ve noticed that business no longer use these older style equipment. It’s apparent I’m going to now have to become a computer geek programmer just to be relevant now.

My question is can anyone recommend text books on learning to navigate computers software and getting familiar with building circuits on a pc software for modern PLC’s with unfamiliar symbols? I noticed Allen Bradley PLCs are popular.

I usually buy cheap books on eBay $5-20 each. The cost of standard school tuition, books, and classroom time is not feasible. Thanks

A small beginner style PLC & HMI can be had new for <$500. Maybe less.
Add a VFD, communications card, and 1/4 HP 3 phase motor for another $500 when you get bored.
Add your home ethernet, a few cables and your on your way!
(That and a few hundred hours.)
Have fun.

 

[Jpflex]

I pasted a link to insgtructions for an emulator for some Allen Bradley PLC's you can play around with. I have not set this up myself, so I'm not 100% sure the instructions are solid. I second AutomationDirect.com, it is a good place for control stuff. I found the PLC stuff and AutomationDirect when the TKE residential elevator in my house broke down and I had to fix it -- a long story there. One of the previous owners put it in, but it does come in handy sometimes. It uses an AB PLC controller.

How to download RSLogix 500, RSLogix 500 Emulate, and RSLinx for free [Updated 2024]

An EASY step-by-step guide on how to download RSLogix500, RSLogix500 Emulate, and RSLinx for FREE!

www.solisplc.com

Thanks I’m looking into all these post sources

 

[MD Automation]

I used the simple PLCs with mostly ladder logic symbol. AB was good stuff but it was overkill and pricey for what I was doing. Automation Direct offers various products with usually free software. I never branched out from those two suppliers. Good support from both.

If you are still looking around - I wanted to echo what Tom posted about Automation Direct.

They have a pretty cheap PLC called "Click". And by cheap, I mean compared to something like Allen Bradley. Just having free software for the Click puts you miles ahead.

I have never programmed a Click personally, but been involved in integrating some small systems into some of my larger machines, where the subcontractor had used a Click PLC to runs some simple controls. Looked like a greater starter device for learning on.

There is a lot of good YouTube content for their programming package. It would (I assume) all be in Ladder Logic (sometimes called LD for Ladder Diagram). If you've never programmed in it, it's pretty easy to pick up (for Sparkys) because it was designed to resemble circuit diagrams. A programming "Rung" in the "Ladder" might have a simple switch (a PLC input) that when closed energized a relay coil (PLC output). More or less like a schematic.

Oddly, for being in America, I have almost never been involved with domestic PLCs like Allen Bradley equipment. All my experience is with devices from (mostly) Europe - Lenze, B&R, Beckhoff. And pretty much all done in Structured Text, not Ladder. But for what you are likely to start using a simple PLC for, the Click and Ladder Logic would be a great start.

Sometime I might post up something in the Campire Chat to show some of the medium complicated projects I've been involved in programming. Though I'm not sure what interest there might be here for that.

Good luck with starting your PLC adventures! I am sure you will enjoy it.

 

[petersonra]

The click is a decent low cost PLC.

AB is pushing the micro 800 line of plcs. I don't like them even with free software. The corresponding terminals are the panelview 800. Pretty decent and low cost for ab, also free software. Sadly the pv800 have been crippled so they won't work with most contrologix or compactlogix processors. I guess they are good enough and cost effective enough to destroy the panelview me family.