PLT License Restrictions

[nietzj]

I work for a large state employer with over 100 electrical worker's with various levels of licenses, everything from a RT to Class A Masters. There recently has been a lot of discussion on what scope of work a PLT License allows the license holder to preform. I'm looking at this mostly as a safety issue but also concerned about a PLT doing work they are not licensed to do. For example when working in a control cabinet with exposed voltages above 30 volts would the PLT need direct supervision by a licensed Journeyman Electrician? Can a PLT extend and/or install new wiring that would not be associated with normal trouble shooting of a low voltage system? I have been reading the Department of Labor and Industry website and it's not crystal clear, any input would be appreciated.

 

[petersonra]

I work for a large state employer with over 100 electrical worker's with various levels of licenses, everything from a RT to Class A Masters. There recently has been a lot of discussion on what scope of work a PLT License allows the license holder to preform. I'm looking at this mostly as a safety issue but also concerned about a PLT doing work they are not licensed to do. For example when working in a control cabinet with exposed voltages above 30 volts would the PLT need direct supervision by a licensed Journeyman Electrician? Can a PLT extend and/or install new wiring that would not be associated with normal trouble shooting of a low voltage system? I have been reading the Department of Labor and Industry website and it's not crystal clear, any input would be appreciated.

in most cases, governmental units are exempt from the rules the rest of us are forced to live by.

 

[Coppersmith]

I work for a large state employer with over 100 electrical worker's with various levels of licenses, everything from a RT to Class A Masters. There recently has been a lot of discussion on what scope of work a PLT License allows the license holder to preform. I'm looking at this mostly as a safety issue but also concerned about a PLT doing work they are not licensed to do. For example when working in a control cabinet with exposed voltages above 30 volts would the PLT need direct supervision by a licensed Journeyman Electrician? Can a PLT extend and/or install new wiring that would not be associated with normal trouble shooting of a low voltage system? I have been reading the Department of Labor and Industry website and it's not crystal clear, any input would be appreciated.

All the license terminology you gave is specific to your state. Without knowing where you live, we cannot do any research to offer you assistance.

 

[nietzj]

Sorry, the state is Minnesota,
My employer is not looking to skirt any rules that would apply to normal industry standards, they are interested in compliance. The more I dig into this the more vague it seems to be. I know you can only work on voltages your personal license allows but what about working in say a fire alarm control panel with exposed line voltage? ( I realize new panels would have a cover over the line terminations) Who determines if this is safe and if the technician is Qualified? remember their PLT does not cover line voltage. Just seems very vague.

 

[petersonra]

Sorry, the state is Minnesota,
My employer is not looking to skirt any rules that would apply to normal industry standards, they are interested in compliance. The more I dig into this the more vague it seems to be. I know you can only work on voltages your personal license allows but what about working in say a fire alarm control panel with exposed line voltage? ( I realize new panels would have a cover over the line terminations) Who determines if this is safe and if the technician is Qualified? remember their PLT does not cover line voltage. Just seems very vague.

Your employer may not be subject to the rules at all, if so they could not "skirt" them. The first thing you should do is check to see if they are actually subject to the rules us mere mortals are. If not by law, some governmental entities choose to bind themselves to the rules anyway.

Are you saying that a guy with a PLT license can work in an alarm panel but not if it has exposed 120V power coming in? That seems like an absurd license restriction. As I understand it, in most states, a low voltage license (or whatever it is called) allows one to work on the whole system, not just the low voltage part.

ETA: In any case, normally OSHA would not allow an employee to work inside a panel where he is exposed to potentially lethal voltages with some very limited exceptions that involve required PPE regardless of what license one might have. And regardless of what license one might have one would need to be specifically qualified by one's employee to do the specific task involved. Now an employer might decide that a guy with a specific license is qualified by virtue of that license to do certain tasks. But that is the responsibility of the employer. OTOH, OSHA generally does not apply to governmental entities.

 

[nietzj]

Thanks Bob,
This is where it gets vague to me, so we have a Power Limited Tech (PLT) who's license is good up to 30 volts working in a fire alarm control panel. Now we need to do some work on the 120 volt line voltage, so since the PLT is already working on the panel he just goes ahead and works on the 120, maybe wires in a new power supply. I know this happens frequently, the question I have is if this is legal? My guess is no, if the PLT were to get shocked and injured would the employer be liable for allowing this?

 

[petersonra]

Thanks Bob,
This is where it gets vague to me, so we have a Power Limited Tech (PLT) who's license is good up to 30 volts working in a fire alarm control panel. Now we need to do some work on the 120 volt line voltage, so since the PLT is already working on the panel he just goes ahead and works on the 120, maybe wires in a new power supply. I know this happens frequently, the question I have is if this is legal? My guess is no, if the PLT were to get shocked and injured would the employer be liable for allowing this?

first. does the license actually restrict him to working on specific voltages, or does it restrict him to working on specific types of systems. this is an important distinction that you need to research.

second. generally, the employer is liable for injury to employees on the job, regardless of any licensing that may or may not be required. a license grants nothing to an employer as far as limiting their liability for OTJ injuries. Nor does it grant an employer any exemption from the employer determining whether a specific employee is "qualified" to engage in a specific task.

 

[nietzj]

The easy answer is yes, a license limits what voltages you can work on, that is the point of different license classifications. It has always been my understanding you can work on voltages below what your licensed for but not above. So a licensed Journeyman electrician can work on the entire 24 volt systems, but a low voltage electrician can only work on the 24 volt portions of a system.
This comes up more than one would imagine, for example when a carpenter installs a power door operator would he be allowed to install the 120 volt power and low voltage controls if he has a PLT licenses? My opinion is no on the 120 volt power and maybe on the low voltage controls. This is the type of question I'm trying to resolve.

 

[petersonra]

The easy answer is yes, a license limits what voltages you can work on, that is the point of different license classifications.

Where does it say this in the rules or the law that established the license? Do you have some kind of citation you can show for this assertion?

I don't know how it is in MN but my understanding is that in most states with low voltage licenses it is about the system being worked on and not the voltages, so if there was some part of the system that was line voltage the low voltage guy could still work on it.

 

[Coppersmith]

Thanks Bob,
This is where it gets vague to me, so we have a Power Limited Tech (PLT) who's license is good up to 30 volts working in a fire alarm control panel. Now we need to do some work on the 120 volt line voltage, so since the PLT is already working on the panel he just goes ahead and works on the 120, maybe wires in a new power supply. I know this happens frequently, the question I have is if this is legal? My guess is no, if the PLT were to get shocked and injured would the employer be liable for allowing this?

I frequently work with a landscape lighting guy who has a low voltage license. His license does not allow him to work on 120 volt circuits. He calls me in to repair outside receptacles or install new ones so he can plug in a low voltage transformer he hangs on the wall.

I have also worked with a fire alarm company. They install the entire system except the line voltage feed to the control panel. I do that.

However, these may be the only two guys in Florida who are not violating the limitations of their licenses.

 

[petersonra]

BTW, I don't mean to pick on you about some of this stuff, but it seems to me that you are making an assertion that suggests the PLT guy could not replace a defective landscape light controller because it has 120V hooked up to it. That just seems incredibly absurd to me. It might be true, it might be legalistically true but routinely ignored.

 

[hbiss]

Most LV licenses that I have seen have wording that allows the holder to work on or install line voltage devices as long as the line voltage wiring has been provided by someone with the proper license to do line voltage work. It's like an HVAC guy or plumber replacing a furnace. He doesn't have to bring an electrician in to connect the wiring.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find the scope or restrictions of the MN LV licensing on line so I can't say for sure what it says.

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

Most LV licenses that I have seen have wording that allows the holder to work on or install line voltage devices as long as the line voltage wiring has been provided by someone with the proper license to do line voltage work. It's like an HVAC guy or plumber replacing a furnace. He doesn't have to bring an electrician in to connect the wiring.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find the scope or restrictions of the MN LV licensing on line so I can't say for sure what it says.

-Hal

I also checked the MN code and rules and was unable to find what it actually covers. One would think it is somewhere, but I could not find it.

 

[nietzj]

Where does it say this in the rules or the law that established the license? Do you have some kind of citation you can show for this assertion?

I don't know how it is in MN but my understanding is that in most states with low voltage licenses it is about the system being worked on and not the voltages, so if there was some part of the system that was line voltage the low voltage guy could still work on it.

Every state is different, some allow homeowners to do all their own wiring without any license at all, other states or cities are much more restrictive. Having a license is a good indication to the electrical inspectors you at least have a basic working knowledge of what your doing and hopefully don't burn your house down. If your assumption is correct than why wouldn't there be only one license for any and all electrical work?

OSHA has a lot to say about this as well as NFPA 7O and NFPA 70E.
Let's look at NFPA 70 National Electrical Code (NEC) Chapt 9 table 11(A) and 11(B). I think that clearly explains the limitation of class 2-3 circuits, this is what a PLT can legally work on, not class 1 circuits. In Minnesota if your working on any class 1 circuit your required to be either a licensed class "A" Journeyman or working under the direct supervision of a Journeyman regardless if any part of the system has class 2-3 wiring. Electricians are required to carry their license on them and Electrical Inspectors routinely ask workers to produce their license, if they are in violation than both the worker and contractor can be fined.

 

[hbiss]

Ok. So it looks like you answered your own question.

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

Every state is different, some allow homeowners to do all their own wiring without any license at all, other states or cities are much more restrictive. Having a license is a good indication to the electrical inspectors you at least have a basic working knowledge of what your doing and hopefully don't burn your house down. If your assumption is correct than why wouldn't there be only one license for any and all electrical work?

OSHA has a lot to say about this as well as NFPA 7O and NFPA 70E.
Let's look at NFPA 70 National Electrical Code (NEC) Chapt 9 table 11(A) and 11(B). I think that clearly explains the limitation of class 2-3 circuits, this is what a PLT can legally work on, not class 1 circuits. In Minnesota if your working on any class 1 circuit your required to be either a licensed class "A" Journeyman or working under the direct supervision of a Journeyman regardless if any part of the system has class 2-3 wiring. Electricians are required to carry their license on them and Electrical Inspectors routinely ask workers to produce their license, if they are in violation than both the worker and contractor can be fined.

If the law says a PLT guy can only work on class 2 and 3 circuits than that is the way it is. It seems to me that if the law is that clear than why are you even asking?

Incidentally, whether the work being done is "legal" or not has no bearing at all on an employer's duty to provide a safe work environment or for an employer's liability in case of a work place injury.