Plug in wall heaters

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Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

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USA
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Electrician ,contractor
How is it manufactures can get UL and OK to have these new Semi portable wall heater/fireplaces that draws over 1450 watts with standard Plug . Then know darn well they will be used as heater and not as abience.

I get these customers who put them in thinking they will save money and wonder why the breaker blows or the outlet and related wiring melts.
I wonder how many fires result and with fatalities?
 
Well the 5-15 plug should be ok up to 1800 watts. I think they should come with instructions that specify an individual circuit if over 900 or 1200 watts though, depending on the circuit.
 
How about this: "Buy any appliance, consider consulting an electrician"...?

Maybe the owner manual will state; "For copper circuits only".

Volta seemed to nail it, even though I know there is no limits on residential!
 
The problem I have seen is the people who purchase them are in older homes with limited heating very easy to overload with very few circuits and sometimes a circuit wont trip due to malfunctioning breakers and we all no what the result of that could be .
 
Exactly these are issue usually in older homes. I have had customers remove the built in electric heaters and replace these because of the tinking of saving energy. They then call because they have tripped the breaker, or melted the outlet or burned the buss in the panel.
This one recent home I found had one it was pulling 12.5 amps alone. I turned on the lights and the tv's and it jumped to 16. I turned on the built in wall mounted hair dryer and it jumed to 22 amps.

They called because the breaker was tripping. They refused to have me wire an additional circuit.
 
That is the conundrum most of the time they cant afford to upgrade the heating system so they buy these portable heaters that overloads there electrical system and they say why provide a new circuit for these heaters that ussualy costs much more than the heater itself . The only solution is to live within the system they have and only use certain electrical devices that will not overload the system .
 
AV ELECTRIC said:
That is the conundrum most of the time they cant afford to upgrade the heating system so they buy these portable heaters that overloads there electrical system and they say why provide a new circuit for these heaters that ussualy costs much more than the heater itself . The only solution is to live within the system they have and only use certain electrical devices that will not overload the system .
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You all are not realizing these heaters are not rated as a primary heat source. They are for supplumental heat. I find that a perfectly good electric wall heater is disabled in place of these portable fireplace or portable heaters. The HO thinks they wil be saving money as they must be cheaper to operate as the ad claims.
 
Sierrasparky said:
You all are not realizing these heaters are not rated as a primary heat source. They are for supplumental heat. I find that a perfectly good electric wall heater is disabled in place of these portable fireplace or portable heaters. The HO thinks they wil be saving money as they must be cheaper to operate as the ad claims.
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These units are not cheap to purchase but they do some hard advertising and people do not know any better and buy them thinking they will save lots of money on their heating bill. I even see them in home that have all electric heating systems. If there is any savings it is because they have essentially "zoned" the house and put more heat where it is wanted the most.

Many of these units cost $400 - $500. Salesman does a good job misleading them not necessarily lying but by not telling them the whole truth. Actually salesmen don't know themselves they just know what company has told them.

I have a hard time convincing people that have these that you can go to local store and purchase a heater for $30-$40 that is not going to cost any more or less to operate. I don't think they even want to hear that after what they have spent on their nice little miracle unit.
 
I dont know where the 1800 watt figure comes in as an acceptable load for a 15 amp circuit. That is the max non continous load. 15 amp cricuits in residential circuits are required to be loaded at no more than 12 amps or 1440 watts thus the sizing of the unit by the manufacturer. Probably gets them past the UL listing for the unit. Unfortunatley the homeowner is then stuck with not being able to have any other load on the circuit without tripping or heaven forbid a meltdown!!
 
the people who sell these do not care how they are intended to be used they care about selling as many as possible.
 
AV ELECTRIC said:
The problem I have seen is the people who purchase them are in older homes with limited heating very easy to overload with very few circuits and sometimes a circuit wont trip due to malfunctioning breakers and we all no what the result of that could be .
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I went on a service call here a while back the customer had 2 electric fireplaces a 120 volt heater in bath rm. besides some lighting on the same circuit.This was an old model mobile home. Circuit breaker was tripping. I told him that the breaker was doing it's job.Because the circuit is overloaded. Advised the need to add additional circuits. The customer declined.Said he would just run 1 fireplace at the time.
 
Teaspoon said:
IThe customer declined.Said he would just run 1 fireplace at the time.
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So How is that goona work out?
I really want to know what kind of majic these customers think you are going to do for them.

Put a 30 amp breaker in or something?
 
There is not an alternative for some people there heating system is limited they don't have any disposable income and there cold . Those are the ones you see on the news with there house on fire very common.
 
stew said:
I dont know where the 1800 watt figure comes in as an acceptable load for a 15 amp circuit. That is the max non continous load. 15 amp cricuits in residential circuits are required to be loaded at no more than 12 amps or 1440 watts thus the sizing of the unit by the manufacturer. Probably gets them past the UL listing for the unit. Unfortunatley the homeowner is then stuck with not being able to have any other load on the circuit without tripping or heaven forbid a meltdown!!
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The 1800 watts was only about the rating of the plug (which is probably 1875 anyhow, as a NEMA 5-15 is rated for 125 volts). No one is claiming a 15 amp circuit should be loaded continuously that way. But the OP was talking about the plug. :)
 
Me being the OP yes the plug is an issue but also the fact that typicaly these units are pluged into a general use recpt outlet that is only 15 amps.

I don't see how a device that may be on for hours at a time and consumes at least 80% of a given circuit can have a 15 amp plug.
 
What do the instructions say? I don't think the plug is the problem, though I think I get what your saying- if they used a 5-20 plug on it would guarentee use on a 20 amp receptacle. But that still might be too much load for a particular circuit. I think that individual circuits are the only solution.

You called them semi-portable, right? Can they be considered fastened in place?
 
Volta said:
What do the instructions say? I don't think the plug is the problem, though I think I get what your saying- if they used a 5-20 plug on it would guarentee use on a 20 amp receptacle. But that still might be too much load for a particular circuit. I think that individual circuits are the only solution.

You called them semi-portable, right? Can they be considered fastened in place?
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I have many a type ,, all of which say consult an electrician as it may need a dedicated circuit!
 
The problem with instructions is that we assume that people are going to read them. The reality of it is that if an appliance comes equipped with a 15 amp plug and that plug fits into the nearest convenient receptacle - it's getting plugged in with no consideration for anything else. If it's a 2-slot receptacle they're getting an adaptor and will not bother to clip the ground to the mounting screw. Even luminaires now come with labels indicating the maximun wattage for that fixture. How many times have we found them to be over-lamped and with the insulation on the wiring flaking off due to excessive heat ?

Granted, one of the biggest problems is educating (or re-educating) the public. But, it becomes extremely difficult when you're up against mass marketing schemes where sales are king and safety is secondary. As long as the mfr. puts a warning label on his product he's off the hook. And as long as the consumer is able to walk up and down the aisles and put whatever they want into their cart they assume the responsibility of that product functioning properly on their (probably already overloaded) 15 amp circuit.

Can you imagine how many heaters a store would sell if they came equipped with a 20 amp plug or if the packaging had a big sign on it indicating THIS MUST BE PLUGGED INTO A DEDICATED 20 AMP CIRCUIT?
 
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