Plugs on wall in front of island

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sfav8r

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We just finished the rough in on a job where the plans called for an island between the kitchen and family room...nothing unusual. Due to a change at the request of the GC, we went back on Friday. While we were there, I noticed they decided to build a wall in front of the island. The island is a step-up island with two surfaces, one at 36" and a step up to 42". The wall is at the step up (originally it was just cabinets). The overhang is 18". My question is with regard to the family room side of this setup. Is that wall a "wall" for purposes of plug spacing or is the wall part of the island? With the 18" overhang they will never be used, but I guess it could be considered a wall.
 
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See 210.52 (A)(2)(3), it's a room divider and part of the wall space of the family room.

Here's another item, sort of on the same topic. If the kitchen sink is installed on the same penisular counter in your example, why does the NEC not require this family room receptacle to be GFI protected, in the same sense as the receptacles installed within 6' of a laundry or bar sink per 210.8 (A) (7)?
 
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I just had the same thing pop up in a pair of apartments. The inspector okay'ed the rough (he's never failed me), but said I need receptacles on the back-side of each peninsula, continuing the living-room wall spacing around the corner.

What I find interesting, especially in light of this thread, is that he said we could use either circuit, the kitchen SA or the living-room receptacle circuit. There are receptacles slated for the peninsula ends, waiting for the cabinets and peninsula.
 
Plugs on wall in front of island

LarryFine said:
I just had the same thing pop up in a pair of apartments. The inspector okay'ed the rough (he's never failed me), but said I need receptacles on the back-side of each peninsula, continuing the living-room wall spacing around the corner.

What I find interesting, especially in light of this thread, is that he said we could use either circuit, the kitchen SA or the living-room receptacle circuit. There are receptacles slated for the peninsula ends, waiting for the cabinets and peninsula.
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I agree with all of you. Larry I have had the same thing come up with me. Isn't it funny how each inspector interprets the NEC differently. I don't get turned down either I just comply with what they ask for. This old electric dog learns something everyday. Semper Fi
 
sfav8r said:
My question is with regard to the family room side of this setup. Is that wall a "wall" for purposes of plug spacing...
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I would say yes.

Dave PE said:
If the kitchen sink is installed on the same penisular counter in your example, why does the NEC not require this family room receptacle to be GFI protected, in the same sense as the receptacles installed within 6' of a laundry or bar sink per 210.8 (A) (7)?
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I would say no, kitchen countertops are required to be GFCI protected, but there is no 6' rule for kitchen sinks. That rule is specfic to laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks; the kitchen sink isn't mentioned, IMO. You would be free to add GFCI protection as a design choice.

Larry Fine said:
What I find interesting, especially in light of this thread, is that he said we could use either circuit, the kitchen SA or the living-room receptacle circuit.
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I would disagree with the inspector, that receptacle is prohibited from being on the SABC, IMO. It is not a wall or counter receptacle installed for a kitchen, it's a wall receptacle installed for the living room.
 
Larry, check out the response to my proposal on this topic, from the 2008 ROP:

2-203 Log #1391 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.52(B)(2) Exception No. 3 (New))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: George Stolz, II, Pierce, CO
Recommendation: Add an Exception to (B)(2) to read:
Exception No. 3: Receptacles installed on an island or peninsula to serve other areas in compliance with the requirements of 210.52(A)(1) and (2) shall be permitted on the same small appliance branch circuit(s) installed to comply with 210.52(C)(2) or (3).​

Substantiation: Islands and peninsulas that are adjacent to living areas not covered under the provisions of 210.52(B) sometimes require an installation of a 15 or 20 amp receptacle to conform with 210.52(A)(2)(3). There is the risk of a “living room” outlet that is not required to be GFCI protected being installed in a location where GFI protection is required on the 20 amp circuit installed per 210.52(C)(2) or (3).​

In addition, given that the use of said receptacles is remote, it should be acceptable to allow a receptacle that is on an island to serve an adjacent “living room.” It doesn’t seem to constitute a high potential for load, and is generally installed for code’s sake, not because a true need is perceived by the installer or AHJ.​

Panel Meeting Action: Reject​

Panel Statement: The receptacles in the adjacent room should not be permitted on the small appliance branch circuit. Some of the arrangements encountered would fit well into the submitter’s concept, but others may indeed place a burden on the small appliance branch circuit. Given the wide and varying types of construction, it is prudent to keep the receptacles delineated between the two rooms.​
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George, let's suppose the receptacle in question was located in such a way that it qualified both to serve the countertop and the living-room requirements; within the peninsular height and overhang limits, and within the living-room's 6-12-12-6 rules.

What would be the compliant installation now? Two receptacles? I'm not aware of any rule that says the now-required-to-be-on-an-appliance-circuit receptacle cannot also be allowed to comply with another room's receptacle spacing requirements.

Hmmmm. :confused:
 
Larry: Darn you and your shades of gray! :D

I was about to break open a can of "in any wall space" from 210.52(A), but let's face it - the peninsula is both wall space and counter space, you got me.

I'd say, since it is serving the requirement of 210.52(B), then the SABC wins, IMO.
 
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