Plumber killed by opened Water main

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I think this is one of the reasons they are trying to get 'away' from using the water pipe as a GE. I read this off of a another forum. What do you think?


"In the Seattle area, a plumber cut a water main to a home on a repipe in the crawl space, and since it had been the ground, he then became the ground.
It killed him."
 
brother said:
I think this is one of the reasons they are trying to get 'away' from using the water pipe as a GE. I read this off of a another forum. What do you think?


"In the Seattle area, a plumber cut a water main to a home on a repipe in the crawl space, and since it had been the ground, he then became the ground.
It killed him."
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I bet the GEC wasn't within the 5' limit.
 
This is not unusual. The American Water Works Association has reported that on average one of their people get shocked each day from water piping. As stated above the most common reason is an open neutral. Some plumbers use some type of jumper cable any time they cut into a pipe on the street side of the water meter.
 
If all the grounds from water mains were removed this most likely would not have saved this mans life. If you have common metallic connections between houses with shared transformer and an open neutral conditions the current will flow as the water lines will be grounded through utilization equipment.
 
brother said:
I think this is one of the reasons they are trying to get 'away' from using the water pipe as a GE. I read this off of a another forum. What do you think?


"In the Seattle area, a plumber cut a water main to a home on a repipe in the crawl space, and since it had been the ground, he then became the ground.
It killed him."
Click to expand...

I think this is unacceptable, We have a code book 2" thick full of rules that

even the best versed Forum members have a hard time agreeing on, yet one

thing that everyone from CMP's , POCO's, Building Dept's, EI's, EC's,on down

knows this problem exists and another life ends. It's not like the pipes can't

be made to isolate the situation, but the first step has not been taken. If it

has, I am not aware of it. At least make it mandatory for the plumber to use

a jumper, like Don mentioned, it makes no sense for all who carry the flag of

' saftey' to knowing let this continue. This will not be the last time we hear

of another plumbers' family with no husband or Dad.
 
benaround said:
I think this is unacceptable, We have a code book 2" thick full of rules that

even the best versed Forum members have a hard time agreeing on, yet one

thing that everyone from CMP's , POCO's, Building Dept's, EI's, EC's,on down

knows this problem exists and another life ends. It's not like the pipes can't

be made to isolate the situation, but the first step has not been taken. If it

has, I am not aware of it. At least make it mandatory for the plumber to use

a jumper, like Don mentioned, it makes no sense for all who carry the flag of

' saftey' to knowing let this continue. This will not be the last time we hear

of another plumbers' family with no husband or Dad.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Why would you want to ground anything other than if the install was code compliant he would be hugging his kids tonight.???? Some hate grounds around here.
 
If it were not used as an electrode - it would still be bonded and act like one. If it were not bonded the likelihood of it being accidentally energized or just generally at a much different potential than the earth, or metalic enclosed equipment would be greatly increased. It would create a lose - lose out of a win - lose situation.

IMSO - Plumbers need to learn a little more about Electrical safety to reduce instances of a tragic one like this. And something as simple as a jumper could be all that is necessary. I see guys changing a water main - I usually tell them the hows and whats about the possibility of that water main acting as a paralel path. I have also had guys ask about when they have been shocked - which is fairly common. And if they did not have a bond they would begin to undersatand why they have silly wires connected to thier stuff. They would be getting shocked more...

They put a noxious stink in gas to know when it is leaking - maybe a little light saying there is current on the water main would help????
 
quogueelectric said:
Why would you want to ground anything other than if the install was code compliant he would be hugging his kids tonight.???? Some hate grounds around here.
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Huh ? Did you read posts #4,#6, and #8 ?
 
e57 said:
If it were not used as an electrode - it would still be bonded and act like one. If it were not bonded the likelihood of it being accidentally energized or just generally at a much different potential than the earth, or metalic enclosed equipment would be greatly increased. It would create a lose - lose out of a win - lose situation.
Click to expand...

How about after the copper water line leaves the building for 10' underground

heading to the main water line, a 5' lenght of PVC is installed to isolate it from

other homes on the same transformer?
 
benaround said:
Huh ? Did you read posts #4,#6, and #8 ?
Click to expand...

If he did he didn't understand them.

This may help him.

Neutral2.gif



Roger
 
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benaround said:
How about after the copper water line leaves the building for 10' underground

heading to the main water line, a 5' lenght of PVC is installed to isolate it from

other homes on the same transformer?
Click to expand...


I have been in favor of a change in the NEC and the installation of a dielectric coupling at the utility entrance.

STILL there could be a potential for getting hurt/killed inside a single resisdence with an open neutral and plumbing pipe. Plumbers need to be aware of this.
 
brian john said:
I have been in favor of a change in the NEC and the installation of a dielectric coupling at the utility entrance. . .
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OK, just don't grab onto both sides of that coupling at the same time. Oh, BTW, you still have to bond the inside piping system to protect your fanny in the bathtub. :roll:
 
charlie said:
OK, just don't grab onto both sides of that coupling at the same time. Oh, BTW, you still have to bond the inside piping system to protect your fanny in the bathtub. :roll:
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100% agreement seems plumbers and water utility guys should know this, take those jumper cables you use to start that truck on cold days with you into a house. Should be basic plumbing 101.
 
benaround said:
I think this is unacceptable.
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Go the AWWA web site and read there position paper on grounding to water lines.

And recall what the NEC requires.
I have a IAEI study from 1944 that addresses the above. It states the practice has not caused any corrosion and is required for safety.

The solution is to install a non-metallic jumper at the meter. This is what the AWWA requires.
By the way the plumber is required to install a notice on the meter if he installs non-metallic pipe, per the plumbing code.
 
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