Pneumatic Elevator 230V

[Dennis Alwon]

These are air driven elevators. A few months ago we wired up one of these in a residence. The unit is 230v single phase-- of course, we wired it 240v. Apparently the company that installed them said it must be on 230v. We found this out months after the elevator was installed. They went to service it and said the unit is wired wrong.

So, if you supplied a motor that needed 230 volts (why would you) then why wouldn't they supply the 230v transformer if it is so important. They did have them but did not supply it so we never thought about it. My guys never even thought that it would make a difference with a 10v difference.

Then they send a transformer that says 240v to 12 v. What the heck.... Only diagram was from 240 to 12 volts. We call them up and they gave us a schematic that would make that transformer work from 240v to 230v.

Is that even legal to do that and who would have known how to make that connection. My guys called me and I had no idea, I assume they sent the wrong trany.

The other question is why would you supply something for a dwelling that needs 230v when all there is is 240? Could these motors be that specific?

Homepage

Home Elevators by PVE Homepage

www.vacuumelevators.com

 

[synchro]

If the transformer is rated to be wired as a buck autotransformer by using the 12V secondary winding then it might be OK. To do this the insulation on the secondary winding must be adequate to support the 240V to ground.

 

[zbang]

Considering their installation reqs....

The electric feed shall be 220VAC single phase through an independent line of conductors of AWG N°10 (6mm²); ...

and the electrical specs-

220VAC (no exceptions 220VAC must be provided, 210 VAC or 230VAC is not acceptable, if installation does not have 220vac on a regular basis, a voltage regulator or transformer must be installed by home owner). Voltage fluctuations are not covered by the warranty.

(210???? where did that come from?) don't match any North American reality that I know, nor with their "230V" direction, and that most of the load is probably the turbine motors.... I think they're blowing smoke. Anything useful on a ratings plate?

I'd be asking the company where in the USA they plan to get 220v power from a line.

(Anything that claims to so particular about the line voltage gets my "Cheezeball Engineering" stamp of recognition.)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Interesting how they changed it to 220v. I am pretty sure this was the same company we used. They insisted 230v not 220v.

zbang, that was my point- why make a motor that doesn't work for our voltages. These must be made in another country and it is setup for their voltages, IDK

 

[ActionDave]

These are air driven elevators. A few months ago we wired up one of these in a residence. The unit is 230v single phase-- of course, we wired it 240v. Apparently the company that installed them said it must be on 230v. We found this out months after the elevator was installed. They went to service it and said the unit is wired wrong.

So, if you supplied a motor that needed 230 volts (why would you) then why wouldn't they supply the 230v transformer if it is so important. They did have them but did not supply it so we never thought about it. My guys never even thought that it would make a difference with a 10v difference.

Then they send a transformer that says 240v to 12 v. What the heck.... Only diagram was from 240 to 12 volts. We call them up and they gave us a schematic that would make that transformer work from 240v to 230v.

Is that even legal to do that and who would have known how to make that connection. My guys called me and I had no idea, I assume they sent the wrong trany.

The other question is why would you supply something for a dwelling that needs 230v when all there is is 240? Could these motors be that specific?

Homepage

Home Elevators by PVE Homepage

www.vacuumelevators.com

These people sound worse than spa manufacturers. They are either uneducated, scam artists, or incompetent.

 

[readydave8]

similar to situation with tanning beds, I never could win that argument

instructions required 208v but seller of tanning bed would claim that it should work fine on standard residential voltage

"nobody else having a problem"

 

[zbang]

zbang, that was my point- why make a motor that doesn't work for our voltages.

Are these really 220v motors or is that just their "party line"? AFAICT, the only remaining 220 countries are China, some in South America, some in Africa, and some of the island states. Perhaps they're Chinese blowers.

None of that solves any of the problems .

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't know. The one we hooked up were 230v motors and we were told they had to be 230v not 240v

 

[GoldDigger]

I will defer to jraef when he shows up, but it seems to me that I have seen multiple times on multiple threads the statement that the NEMA standard voltage designation of 230V describes a motor that is designed to be used on a nominal 240V utility service. The unspoken assumption is that after a typical voltage drop the motor will (often) see 230V at its terminals.
Now this applies only to the motors, as is not necessarily any help if the entire system specifies an input voltage of 230V, with a tolerance band that does not cover 240V.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sure there are electronics involved but no way they are rated 230v only. The system ran great for months. I am not sure what the service call entailed but they did not try and pin the cost on us.

 

[Cow]

Are you dealing with an installer/distributor or the manufacturer?

I would have no problem calling the manufacturer to try to get ahold of an engineer in technical support just to verify what you're being told is true.

 

[Coppersmith]

Apparently this is designed for countries that have 220v convenience receptacles. This is on the website linked above (emphasis mine):

PLUG & PLAY ELEVATOR
220 Volt Power Supply / Energy Efficient Residential Elevators Plug your home elevator into your wall.

I'm curious if it has a UL or other national testing lab label on it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Are you dealing with an installer/distributor or the manufacturer?

I would have no problem calling the manufacturer to try to get ahold of an engineer in technical support just to verify what you're being told is true.

I call the company posted above and at that time they insisted on 230V not 220V. I am perplexed as to why they are insisting on 220v now.

Maybe they realized that 220v was better-- who knows.. I may call them again just out of curiosity.

 

[Coppersmith]

This sounds like the same problem I recently had with a client that bought a Chinese made spa tub and instant water heater from the Alibaba website. Neither product was approved by a NRTL. Both had wacky wire colors. The instructions said one voltage, the box/crate they came in said a different voltage, the products themselves were not marked with a voltage.

 

[Little Bill]

220, 221, whatever it takes!

 

[Besoeker3]

Interesting how they changed it to 220v. I am pretty sure this was the same company we used. They insisted 230v not 220v.

zbang, that was my point- why make a motor that doesn't work for our voltages. These must be made in another country and it is setup for their voltages, IDK

Their website says Miami. Can you get them to put in writing what the correct voltage is and what the tolerance is on that voltage?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Their website says Miami. Can you get them to put in writing what the correct voltage is and what the tolerance is on that voltage?

It is in writing on their site. I finished this job months ago-- 6 months or so and went back about a month ago to add the trany they provided.

 

[Besoeker3]

It is in writing on their site. I finished this job months ago-- 6 months or so and went back about a month ago to add the trany they provided.

OK. Did it get you the voltage they said you should have?

 

[hillbilly1]

Looks like if it was sold through a Miami company, they would know anything in the states would either be 240, or 208 volts, and would have included the buck/boost transformer in the package if it was that big of an issue. Most likely they are having quality issues that they don’t want to warrant, so let’s blame the power!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

All US motors have nameplate voltages less than the nominal system voltage. The nameplate for a motor intended to be used on a 240 volt system will say 230 volts and the one for a 480 volt system will say 460 volts.

Of course if you actually apply the language in 110.4, it is not possible to install a motor under the rules in the NEC.