poco not taking responsibility?

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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
I'm looking for input as to how your power company handles these situations:



Scenario;

The customer's meter was replaced w/ the digital type a few days ago without notice. They only realized it had been changed because whoever did it left some of their tools next to the meter base.

Last night, they lose half their lights. Customer calls poco; lineman shows up and says one of the jaws has burned off and their service needs to be replaced. He puts the meter back in, seals it, and leaves.

I opened up the can, which was still hot, and found one of the load side jaws has burned off. The conductors don't show any damage from overheating.

The outer side of the jaw was severely bent towards the outside of the can, and the inner side was laying in the bottom of the can.

Now, of course this is me speculating, but it looks like the jaw was bent when the new meter was installed; the part that was still remaining didn't show any damage. So it overheats the only side that is in contact and it melts away.


I called the construction supervisor at the poco (REA) and explain this. He said they normally would fix it, but since the meter base is old, they don't have the parts to do it. They won't touch it.

The poco won't reconnect to a new meter base until its been inspected. The inspection department won't pass the job unless the service is completely rebuilt. It's a 150A back-to-back fed w/ SEU. The inspector wants a new 200A w/ a disconnect, and now the service conductors up the mast will need to be changed to 4//0.

The customer is running their fridge and some lights off a 5kw portable generator; they have no heat and we're having freezing temperatures right now. I was prepared to fix it for them today, but poco and inspection dept. won't do anything until tomorrow. I had to tell the customer to call someone else because I can't do it until monday.

I think the customer is getting shafted. What say you?
 
I think so, too. If the socket was damaged before the new meter was installed, then the PoCo shoulnd't have put in a new one. If it was OK, then it's a far stretch to think that anyone besides the PoCo could have broken it. And, well, "you touch it...".
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Rural Electric Act utility

Rural Electric Act utility

This can only be resolved by going up the serving electric utility's chain of command. If this doesn't work, there is adverse publicity through the newspapers or television. Since this is a rural electric, the state public service commission has no authority. The last resort is lots of pictures, documentation, and a lawsuit in a small claims court. :mad:
 
The poco won't reconnect to a new meter base until its been inspected. The inspection department won't pass the job unless the service is completely rebuilt. It's a 150A back-to-back fed w/ SEU. The inspector wants a new 200A w/ a disconnect, and now the service conductors up the mast will need to be changed to 4//0.

Sounds like a PITA all around. I feel sorry for the HO.

on a side note, I thought the service conductors in the mast could be 2/0 on a 200A service. Did I miss something?
 

satcom

Senior Member
Are you sure the POCO changed out the meter? not someone looking to beat a high energy billing.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
I'm looking for input as to how your power company handles these situations:



Scenario;

The customer's meter was replaced w/ the digital type a few days ago without notice. They only realized it had been changed because whoever did it left some of their tools next to the meter base.

Last night, they lose half their lights. Customer calls poco; lineman shows up and says one of the jaws has burned off and their service needs to be replaced. He puts the meter back in, seals it, and leaves.

I opened up the can, which was still hot, and found one of the load side jaws has burned off. The conductors don't show any damage from overheating.

The outer side of the jaw was severely bent towards the outside of the can, and the inner side was laying in the bottom of the can.

Now, of course this is me speculating, but it looks like the jaw was bent when the new meter was installed; the part that was still remaining didn't show any damage. So it overheats the only side that is in contact and it melts away.


I called the construction supervisor at the poco (REA) and explain this. He said they normally would fix it, but since the meter base is old, they don't have the parts to do it. They won't touch it.

The poco won't reconnect to a new meter base until its been inspected. The inspection department won't pass the job unless the service is completely rebuilt. It's a 150A back-to-back fed w/ SEU. The inspector wants a new 200A w/ a disconnect, and now the service conductors up the mast will need to be changed to 4//0.

The customer is running their fridge and some lights off a 5kw portable generator; they have no heat and we're having freezing temperatures right now. I was prepared to fix it for them today, but poco and inspection dept. won't do anything until tomorrow. I had to tell the customer to call someone else because I can't do it until monday.

I think the customer is getting shafted. What say you?

What is the inspector baseing his request for a larger service on???? Did he do a load clac? all you nee to is replase the meter can.
 

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
There is a bunch of that going on in my area also.


this is me speculating, but it looks like the jaw was bent when the new meter was installed

They would speculate pre existing conditions.

You would counter with "Aren't your feild guys trained to inspect before installation?"

They would counter with blah blah blah. If you complain enough, they will cover it. Is it worth it? That's up to the homeowner.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
What a pain in the butt. Why do you have to change more than just a meterbase?

On a sidenote, our POCO is going to start installing digital remote read meters for 10,000 homes here shortly. Our company has been asked to be on standby in case a meterbase goes bad while swapping meters. Hopefully, our inspectors use a little more common sense than yours do....
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
They would speculate pre existing conditions.

You would counter with "Aren't your feild guys trained to inspect before installation?"

They would counter with blah blah blah.
At which point I'd ask "Well, who installed the first one?" :cool:


Added: Actually, I'd ask that as soon as they cited pre-existing conditions.
 
Last edited:

iaov

Senior Member
Location
Rhinelander WI
This sure sounds like a POCO screw up. I do not understand where an inspector gets off requiring a 200 amp service. Some one else said it before but I'll say it again. Did the inspector do a load calc and if so why. Inspectors don't do load calcs here (I don't believe most would know how). I'ld make some noise if I was the HO.
 

active1

Senior Member
Location
Las Vegas
IMO the customer can complain all they want but if they want it resolved any time soon it will cost them. I seen things like this go on for a good part of a year. After the POCO is done dealing with the customer they will forward the HO to their complaint voice mail box that's full. I never seen a POCO repair a customers equipment. I known linemen that would allow an emergency repair without a permit inspection.

I forgot, why do you need the POCO to do anything?
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
the basis for the 200A service is that the poco's (all of them here) won't connect to anything less on residential.

i told the homeowner my thoughts and the details of the conversation i had with them.

i'm certainly not going to argue with the poco; its not my fight, i just feel bad for the homeowner and was hoping they could argue for REA to cover the costs of repair. After all, it is the poco's equipment that failed.

i've had problems with this particular power company before not taking responsibility for their screw-ups. one i did argue all the way to the top because it was going to cost me a lot. the end result of that argument was, "its our system. if you want to be connected, you'll do it our way." and i had to rebuild a service and pay for modifications to the structure.
 
the basis for the 200A service is that the poco's (all of them here) won't connect to anything less on residential.


Brantmacga.,

Normally I don't like to start the debate but any chance do you have the documents that stated that kind requirement as you qouted to me ?

I know in state of Wisconsin it can be either 100 or 200 amp but 100 amp is the smallest size they will allowed in that size.

Also in EDF the smallest size service rating is 63 amps.

Merci,Marc
 

arossi

Member
I'm looking for input as to how your power company handles these situations:



Scenario;

The customer's meter was replaced w/ the digital type a few days ago without notice. They only realized it had been changed because whoever did it left some of their tools next to the meter base.

Last night, they lose half their lights. Customer calls poco; lineman shows up and says one of the jaws has burned off and their service needs to be replaced. He puts the meter back in, seals it, and leaves.

I opened up the can, which was still hot, and found one of the load side jaws has burned off. The conductors don't show any damage from overheating.

The outer side of the jaw was severely bent towards the outside of the can, and the inner side was laying in the bottom of the can.

Now, of course this is me speculating, but it looks like the jaw was bent when the new meter was installed; the part that was still remaining didn't show any damage. So it overheats the only side that is in contact and it melts away.


I called the construction supervisor at the poco (REA) and explain this. He said they normally would fix it, but since the meter base is old, they don't have the parts to do it. They won't touch it.

The poco won't reconnect to a new meter base until its been inspected. The inspection department won't pass the job unless the service is completely rebuilt. It's a 150A back-to-back fed w/ SEU. The inspector wants a new 200A w/ a disconnect, and now the service conductors up the mast will need to be changed to 4//0.

The customer is running their fridge and some lights off a 5kw portable generator; they have no heat and we're having freezing temperatures right now. I was prepared to fix it for them today, but poco and inspection dept. won't do anything until tomorrow. I had to tell the customer to call someone else because I can't do it until monday.

I think the customer is getting shafted. What say you?



Do you have to install a "fused" disconnect or can you get by with just a 200a non-fused, the main in the panel is still 150A (I think?) then you won't have to change any conductors. At least in my neck of the woods you can do this.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Brantmacga.,

Normally I don't like to start the debate but any chance do you have the documents that stated that kind requirement as you qouted to me ?

I know in state of Wisconsin it can be either 100 or 200 amp but 100 amp is the smallest size they will allowed in that size.

Also in EDF the smallest size service rating is 63 amps.

Merci,Marc


no i don't have them, but you can get them from the poco if you would like to see them.

they will connect to a 200A service on non-residential; like a barn or pond house and the like.

its nothing to debate as i have no say in their requirements.
 

c2500

Senior Member
Location
South Carolina
This can only be resolved by going up the serving electric utility's chain of command. If this doesn't work, there is adverse publicity through the newspapers or television. Since this is a rural electric, the state public service commission has no authority. The last resort is lots of pictures, documentation, and a lawsuit in a small claims court. :mad:

Charlie,

Would you elaborate on this? I have never heard of a utility not being subject to the PSC. I would love to get more detail.

Thanks,

c2500
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
Opps.

Opps.

OK personal experience talking here. Smile. Back away. Don't intimate blame. Get card back if possible.
I complained to the POCO once. Everytime I call I get transfered to the Theft Prevention department. Name documented and politely told they will forward it to the appropriate department. I quite calling. I don't do any service involved work. I don't receive letters from them telling me the theft of power is a felony and will result in the loss of my license.

It started from not being able to get a smoking meter base tag cut and meter pulled. Not getting a truck dispatched for a line down with a building that was energized and having the dispatcher laughing and telling me the next shift MIGHT handle it. It has ended up with one inspector at the local AHJ on a witch hunt, linemen laughing and less than helpful as they mess up on the customers dime.
Pick you battles. I don't want to, and have not voluntarily done a service since. It's a career decision.

True story.
 
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