Pole barn wiring

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arnettda

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I have been reading old posts and want to make sure I am correct.
My Local POCO is building a Pole Barn or large metal storage shed. 60'x120' Used for storing equipment the occasional truck, and transformers.
Is any of this building a Hazardous location?
I can not use NM or UF cable in it. 334.10 (3) prevents this. It would need to concealed in walls since it is not a dwelling unit.
I am going to use MC or EMT with 4 square boxes and raised industrial covers.
Any other direction would be great. Thanks
 
You or someone else may point out a mistake I have made over the years, but unless it's subject to physical damage, I can not rule out the use of UF, as you did.
 
augie47 said:
You or someone else may point out a mistake I have made over the years, but unless it's subject to physical damage, I can not rule out the use of UF, as you did.
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This is how I came to not using UF in pole Barns.
340.10(4)when using as NM cable follow Parts 2 & 3 of 334
334.10(3) other structures permitted, cables shall be concealed. If it was a dwelling unit pole barn It would be okay. But it is not. ?????
 
arnettda said:
I have been reading old posts and want to make sure I am correct.
My Local POCO is building a Pole Barn or large metal storage shed. 60'x120' Used for storing equipment the occasional truck, and transformers.
Is any of this building a Hazardous location?
I can not use NM or UF cable in it. 334.10 (3) prevents this. It would need to concealed in walls since it is not a dwelling unit.
I am going to use MC or EMT with 4 square boxes and raised industrial covers.
Any other direction would be great. Thanks
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Correct, UF must follow the same rules as NM as you pointed out, NM could only be used if concealed and behind a 15 minute finish.

Hazardous location depends on if any hazardous materials are being used/stored in this building.

Fuel in the trucks or other machinery generally doesn't cause a hazardous location if the main purpose of the building is to simply store them there.

If fuel or any other hazardous location producing material is stored and/or dispensed in the building you have hazardous location issues.

If it is a vehicle maintenance shop with major repairs being the normal operation then you have a commercial garage and need to comply with art 511.
 
Lookover 511. The last fire department I did the only thing the inspector required was the receptacles were no less than 18"AFF
 
ceb58 said:
Lookover 511. The last fire department I did the only thing the inspector required was the receptacles were no less than 18"AFF
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Why?

511.1 Scope.
These occupancies shall include locations used for service and repair operations in connection with self-propelled vehicles (including, but not limited to, passenger automobiles, buses, trucks, and tractors) in which volatile flammable liquids or flammable gases are used for fuel or power.
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Not the typical kind of activity that goes on in the average fire department building.
 
kwired said:
Why?



Not the typical kind of activity that goes on in the average fire department building.
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Vehicle storage. He was sighting 511.3(D)(1)(b) because they may do small repairs on the trucks. The no less than 18" for receptacles was the only thing he wanted. Easier on my back :) no problems with inspections. We both won.
 
ceb58 said:
Vehicle storage. He was sighting 511.3(D)(1)(b) because they may do small repairs on the trucks. The no less than 18" for receptacles was the only thing he wanted. Easier on my back :) no problems with inspections. We both won.
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I have no problem with installing things above 18" but not for any reason in 511 at this location.

From 511.2 definitioins:
Minor Repair Garage. A building or portions of a building used for lubrication, inspection, and minor automotive maintenance work, such as engine tune-ups, replacement of parts, fluid changes (e.g., oil, antifreeze, transmission fluid, brake fluid, air-conditioning refrigerants), brake system repairs, tire rotation, and similar routine maintenance work, including associated floor space used for offices, parking, or showrooms
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Maybe this definition needs some tweaking, but I believe the intent is to mean that is the primary activity that goes on in the space. Otherwise how many small repairs go on in many dwelling unit garages - every one of them should be deemed a hazardous location if we want to look at it from that perspective. The main purpose of a fire station is usually not vehicle maintenance and repairs.

Add: if there is no pits, the area is unclassified anyway according to the section cited by your AHJ.
 
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kwired said:
I have no problem with installing things above 18" but not for any reason in 511 at this location.

From 511.2 definitioins:


Maybe this definition needs some tweaking, but I believe the intent is to mean that is the primary activity that goes on in the space. Otherwise how many small repairs go on in many dwelling unit garages - every one of them should be deemed a hazardous location if we want to look at it from that perspective. The main purpose of a fire station is usually not vehicle maintenance and repairs.

Add: if there is no pits, the area is unclassified anyway according to the section cited by your AHJ.
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You are correct but it was a case of "know when to hold them, know when to fold them" No violations. I will let him have that one.
 
ceb58 said:
You are correct but it was a case of "know when to hold them, know when to fold them" No violations. I will let him have that one.
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I likely wouldn't have wanted to install anything below 18" myself, unless the owner had something they specifically wanted that cause problems here, but still wouldn't have had an issue with pointing out to the inspector that he was likely wrong.

Look at it this way, one of us is wrong and will learn from it, I would concede if my view was pointed out to be wrong, but so far in this discussion no one has convinced me there is a hazardous location.
 
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