pole base anchor bolts

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malachi constant

Senior Member
Location
Minneapolis
In doing a punchlist I noticed what appears to be corrosion on all the pole base anchor bolts (see attached bmp). Specs call for hot-dipped galvanized bolts. I'm the engineer. Municipal project in the upper midwest (extreme temps, lots of moisture, can be windy, lots of salt on the road). Poles are aluminum, 12' tall on 3' riser (15' total).

I'm looking for some help here. I'm not an expert on hardware, but these look like they are corroding and not galvanized, and I am concerned. Should I have these taken out and the correct bolt installed? If so does that mean the entire base should be repoured? Or is this a non-issue and they will hold up fine over the years?

I don't want to go overboard and be overly burdensome in the punchlist, but if this is a potential safety issue I want to get it fixed. Thanks.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I agree, they do seem to look pretty bad for new bolts. I would ask to see back up from the pole manufacturer that this is normal for their product and I would also want to see the warranty.

The only way to have these bolts replaced would be to drill and epoxy new bolts or have the pole bases completely reconstructed.

Roger
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
It is just as well they need to be fixed they did hit the center of the base and once the poles are bolted on they will look like garbage.
 
D

dicklaxt

Senior Member
What iwire said


Where's the jack hammer??????????I agree, may be able to cut them off and star drill and epoxy in new bolts with expansion anchors(if allowed).This would reposition pole base and then the conduit stub up might be the way location......I vote to tear it out and start over

dick
 
K

KentAT

Senior Member
Location
Northeastern PA
Those should be J- or L-bolts. No way to redo them...removing the concrete to the bottom of the bolts and repouring will not work.

Not hot-dip galvanized, not centered on base, probably are straight steel bolts of unknown strength...bad job all around.


kent
 
Dave58er

Dave58er

Senior Member
Location
Dearborn, MI
KentAT said:
probably are straight steel bolts of unknown strength...
Click to expand...

Agreed. Every L bolt I've seen for pole bases was hot dipped galv. These look like straight bolts they just had laying around.

As a fix one option you should look into is the hilti anchor bolt/epoxy combo unit.

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/page/module/product/prca_catnavigation.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-8995

It might work for such a short pole. I've used them before and they are great. When I used them we were anchoring conduit support racks but I bet they have them rated for freestanding poles.
 
M

malachi constant

Senior Member
Location
Minneapolis
Remember this one? Contractor has since responded that..."the anchor bolts are not corroding, but have surface rust on them as with any bolt for outside lighting." He provided documentation from his supplier that appears to indicate they are galvanized. I don't have much reason to disbelieve him. My guess is either these really are galvanized but have surface rust like he states, or that different bolts got installed than are on the invoice.

Any thoughts??
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
malachi constant said:
...........Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

Tell the contractor that if he is going to make you use them, you will require him to assume, in writing, all liability now and in the future. This way, if the pole falls down in two years and kills a little kid riding a bike, you at least have a leg to stand on in court.

I, however, would simply flat-out refuse to use them.
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
malachi constant said:
Remember this one? Contractor has since responded that..."the anchor bolts are not corroding, but have surface rust on them as with any bolt for outside lighting." He provided documentation from his supplier that appears to indicate they are galvanized. I don't have much reason to disbelieve him. My guess is either these really are galvanized but have surface rust like he states, or that different bolts got installed than are on the invoice.

Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

Chances that the bolts are galvanized? Slim to none, and Slim left town. Galvanized surfaces do not have "surface rust". They maintain their silver/grey matte surface finish until the zinc is completely sacrificed, whereupon you'll get localized rusting or pinholes where the iron oxide will bloom up, based on the local thickness of the galvanizing when new.

What kind of documentation did he provide? I can fake up a purchase order as well as the next guy, and just because the cut sheet says galvanized bolts are available doesn't mean that's what was supplied. Try wire brushing the "surface rust" with a brass brush and see if you find any galvanizing underneath. I very much doubt you'll be pleased with what you (don't) find.
 
M

malachi constant

Senior Member
Location
Minneapolis
I asked the EC to supply a letter from the bolt manufacturer stating that this type of corrosion is normal for a galvanized bolt. His response is that these are galvanized from the threads to the bottom, and that he could wire brush the threads and spray a can of ZRC coating (a cold galvanizing spray) on the threads to greatly slow down the rusting process.

Unfortunately drilling in new bolts will cause all the heads to be off by 20 degrees or so - that won't look good at all. It's a decent contractor, I hate to make him rip up the concrete bases, especially over something I have so little experience with (as in, I don't want to realize years from now that because I overreacted and wasn't fully informed I cost someone $10K). This one may have to go to the Owner to see what they are OK with. I'm still going to push for the manufacturer's letter.

Sigh.
 
M

markstg

Senior Member
Location
Big Easy
malachi constant said:
I asked the EC to supply a letter from the bolt manufacturer stating that this type of corrosion is normal for a galvanized bolt. His response is that these are galvanized from the threads to the bottom, and that he could wire brush the threads and spray a can of ZRC coating (a cold galvanizing spray) on the threads to greatly slow down the rusting process.

Unfortunately drilling in new bolts will cause all the heads to be off by 20 degrees or so - that won't look good at all. It's a decent contractor, I hate to make him rip up the concrete bases, especially over something I have so little experience with (as in, I don't want to realize years from now that because I overreacted and wasn't fully informed I cost someone $10K). This one may have to go to the Owner to see what they are OK with. I'm still going to push for the manufacturer's letter.

Sigh.
Click to expand...

Those bolts are not Hot Dipped Galvanized. They may have been zinc plated, sometimes called Galvanized, which puts a light layer of zinc over the steel bolt. HDG results in a layer of zinc over 5 times that of zinc plating.

With the rust you see, the zinc plating has already been sacrificed, and is starting on the steel. Don't let anyone tell you that it is just a rust layer, it will continue to rust, until bolt failure.
 
USMC1302

USMC1302

Senior Member
Location
NW Indiana
I agree with others that those bolts are incorrect. For some reason, they look a little small to me as well. Is there a supplier you could could get a sample from close by? Then you can see what they should really look like. The ones we get have a pretty thick coating on them, and would never look like that.
 
W

wawireguy

Senior Member
Who made the bases? Did the EC make them himself? I'd call the supplier. Maybe even drop in and have him show you his L bolt stock. Give you a sample. Something isn't correct here. How many bases are you talking about?

I had bases that sat out all winter last year and the bolts did not rust.
 
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