Pool Bonding Question

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iceflow

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I have noticed on my Pool that the copper bonding wire is not connected to any of the devices, (pumps heater etc). What I have is a copper wire loop about 2 ft tall exiting and then entering the earth right next to the devices. My logic tells me to cut this and using a metal strip connector and the correct copper guage wire connect in all the devices. Having said that I would like to test whether the bond wire is correctly attached to the pool to begin with. ie: I don't want to go and hook up motors and the like to a bond that for all I know may be open circuit to the pool shell. Is there any way I can test this? I am skilled in the use of ohmmeters / voltmeters. I have wired up to and including 3 phase a.c in past jobs as a Computer Engineer and Electrician, (not as a diy hobbyist).

Thanks
 
I will say this-- do not cut the bond wire. If you are not qualified to work on pools, ie, a licensed electrician, then I would find someone who is. This is not something to take lightly.
 
Bonding

Bonding

Mr Zimmerman, point taken I will not cut the bonding wire. What I will do is have a pool guy come and look it over. It would make me feel a lot better though if there is some way they could test to make sure that the bond wire is attached to the pool correctly. I get nervous when I see safety wires not connected. I'm wondering what would happen if the bond was disconnected at the pool shell but the motors, timer box etc was connected to the bond wire. Could it be more dangerous than it is at present?
Thanks for your reply.

All the best
Donovan
 
I suggest you get an electrician, and not a "pool guy" to look at this. It's one thing for joe handyman to look at a livingroom outlet for you, but with pools and water and kids it's an entirely different ball of wax, and if there ever was a time for a homeowner to call in a licensed professional, it's when dealing with pools & electricity.
 
Do you bring your pool pump inside for winter? Who does your pool startup? Did someone just replace your pump? Just some questions as to why the equipment is not bonded at the moment...
 
rcarroll said:
Dennis, I knew you were an old hippie.:D
Click to expand...

I gave myself away that easily, huh.... Went to college from 68-72 . That was about the heart of it all. Almost went to Woodstock but I knew it was going to be a zoo so I stayed home in Brooklyn.
 
Pool Bonding Question

stickboy1375 said:
Do you bring your pool pump inside for winter? Who does your pool startup? Did someone just replace your pump? Just some questions as to why the equipment is not bonded at the moment...
Click to expand...

The pumps and all equipment have never been moved. The bond wire was never connected to any of the equipment, (timer box, pumps, heater), it protrudes from the earth in about a two foot loop. It was like that when we bought the house five years ago.
 
Is there any metal structure of the pool you can measure to (e.g. a metal handrail, or light niche)? If so, use an ohm meter to see the resistance between the loop and those metal items. If it is near 0, there is most likely a decent grid connection. This is also assuming there is nothing else connected to that #8 loop. Many of these metal items have an equipment ground conductor that goes back to a common point. This could fool you into thinking the bond grid is intact when it isn't.

Split bolting on #8 jumpers to your pump, heater, etc would be a normal way to connect to the bonding grid.
 
Pool Bonding Question

suemarkp said:
Is there any metal structure of the pool you can measure to (e.g. a metal handrail, or light niche)? If so, use an ohm meter to see the resistance between the loop and those metal items. If it is near 0, there is most likely a decent grid connection. This is also assuming there is nothing else connected to that #8 loop. Many of these metal items have an equipment ground conductor that goes back to a common point. This could fool you into thinking the bond grid is intact when it isn't.

Split bolting on #8 jumpers to your pump, heater, etc would be a normal way to connect to the bonding grid.
Click to expand...


There are two pool lights with metal trim rings. I will test the resistance. I'll also have an electrician come take a look because I want to know if it is also possible to wire in GCFI's into 2 phase motors as added protection or if the GCFI may cause more trouble than it's worth due to motor current draw fluctuations. Thanks to all for your responses.
 
If the motors are 240V, you have to use a double pole GFCI (two singles won't work). These are quite expensive (usually over $100 each), and not required if the pump is hard wired. I'm not sure if they false trip much or not in the harsh outside environment, as I don't have GFCI's on mine.
 
As Mark said, GFCI is not required on hard-wired pumps. GFCI is NOT a substitute for proper grounding and bonding. It is very easy for the grounding pin to be damged or removed from equioment that is cord and plug connected, thus the rational for requiring GFCI for cord and plug conected equipment. Hard-wired equipment is more likely to be properly grounded which eliminates the need for GFCI. I will prefer a properly grounded/bonded circuit over a GFCI protected circuit any day!
Refer to artcle 680.26 for pool bonding requirements. Especially look at 680.26(4). Is it possible that your water pump motor is double insulated and that the loop was left to fulfill this requirement to have the bond wire available in the event the motor is replaced wit a non-double insulated motor?
 
Pool Bonding Question

haskindm said:
As Mark said, GFCI is not required on hard-wired pumps. GFCI is NOT a substitute for proper grounding and bonding. It is very easy for the grounding pin to be damged or removed from equioment that is cord and plug connected, thus the rational for requiring GFCI for cord and plug conected equipment. Hard-wired equipment is more likely to be properly grounded which eliminates the need for GFCI. I will prefer a properly grounded/bonded circuit over a GFCI protected circuit any day!
Refer to artcle 680.26 for pool bonding requirements. Especially look at 680.26(4). Is it possible that your water pump motor is double insulated and that the loop was left to fulfill this requirement to have the bond wire available in the event the motor is replaced wit a non-double insulated motor?
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Many thanks for your replies. I have 3 motors,(pump, spa and polaris), plus a pool blower that all have the copper bond lugs on the outside shell. So I would have to assume that the motors are not double insulated.
 
Sounds like the pool company ran the bonding wire but didn't hook it up or expected the electrical contractor to do it. That almost happened to me--- I made them come back and do it since they ran the wires.
 
Iceflow, I suggest you have your electrician look at these items you are questioning, and with that said, I am closing this thread.

Roger
 
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