Pool Bonding

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wlthorpe

Member
Location
Benson, NC
Occupation
Electrician
Question for those with more experience than myself when it comes to pools... I have a pool contractor that uses in-ground steel wall shells... from my understanding the bonding permitter would go around the pool tying into the pool in 4 evenly spaced spots as well as tying into anything metal such as rails or light shells. Where I get confused is the shell is floor-less, therefor the contractor pours vermiculite over soil as the floor and then places a vinyl liner over this vermiculite floor...

From my understanding the vermiculite needs to be bonded due to its "porous nature" similar to concrete. Which would involve a copper grid or tying into reinforcement steel... I was told there is no reinforcement steel when this stuff is sprayed in.

Basically my question is: does the vermiculite floor need to be tied into the equipotential bond even tho there is a vinyl liner over it and the metal wall shell?

Or is it safe with out because of the vinyl liner that will eventually be put over top of it.
 
Concrete pools are only ones considered conductive because of porosity, and the rebar must be bonded. 4 tails equidistant are required that tie into your perimeter bonding. A dedicated bond wire from the steel will run back to the pool equipment and hit all the motors and heater(s). Depending on the inspector, panels, transformers and the like may have to be bonded.

The vinyl pools do not need a grid in the vermiculite as the vinyl liner prevents porosity. There is no reinforcement in vermiculite.

It's been almost 20 years since my last vinyl build-only concrete now. I believe the requirement is still at every joint in the steel walls a bond lug with a nut and bolt is required. Perimeter bond still needed. Wet niche lights must be bonded on the outside and inside of the niche.

Which NEC cycle year you on there?
 
Mystic Pools said:
Concrete pools are only ones considered conductive because of porosity, and the rebar must be bonded. 4 tails equidistant are required that tie into your perimeter bonding. A dedicated bond wire from the steel will run back to the pool equipment and hit all the motors and heater(s). Depending on the inspector, panels, transformers and the like may have to be bonded.

The vinyl pools do not need a grid in the vermiculite as the vinyl liner prevents porosity. There is no reinforcement in vermiculite.

It's been almost 20 years since my last vinyl build-only concrete now. I believe the requirement is still at every joint in the steel walls a bond lug with a nut and bolt is required. Perimeter bond still needed. Wet niche lights must be bonded on the outside and inside of the niche.

Which NEC cycle year you on there?
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We’re currently on 2020… i believe we’ll be switching to 2023 this year… my only concern with the vinyl liner would be a tear or something of that nature and the vermiculite would then be exposed to the pool but not bonded in any way…i know code references concrete or similar material being conductive and needing to be bonded and then mentions vinyl liners being non conductive in the same reference which kind of throws me off.
 
wlthorpe said:
We’re currently on 2020… i believe we’ll be switching to 2023 this year… my only concern with the vinyl liner would be a tear or something of that nature and the vermiculite would then be exposed to the pool but not bonded in any way…i know code references concrete or similar material being conductive and needing to be bonded and then mentions vinyl liners being non conductive in the same reference which kind of throws me off.
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July 1, 2025 we will go to the 2023

If there is a tear in the vinyl then the pool will leak and they will have to repair it. I don't think I would worry about it.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
July 1, 2025 we will go to the 2023

If there is a tear in the vinyl then the pool will leak and they will have to repair it. I don't think I would worry about it.
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So you’re saying because there’s a vinyl liner, bonding from the vermiculite to the equipotential bonding plane isn’t required?

concrete is mentioned as conductive and vinyl nonconductive but obviously nowhere is it spelled out in plain English concrete like material under a vinyl shell needed to be bonded… just that one is conductive and the other isn’t which is what is throwing me off
 

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wlthorpe said:
So you’re saying because there’s a vinyl liner, bonding from the vermiculite to the equipotential bonding plane isn’t required?

concrete is mentioned as conductive and vinyl nonconductive but obviously nowhere is it spelled out in plain English concrete like material under a vinyl shell needed to be bonded… just that one is conductive and the other isn’t which is what is throwing me off
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Like Dennis said. No issues if there is a tear.

Vinyl and fiberglass pool are considered non-conductive. No need for reinforcement therefore no bonding required.
However, there are some vinyl builders pouring concrete walls and floors. They are reinforced. On that, I would bond the reinforcement.

2023 680.27(C) refers to Nonconductive Pool Shell. i.e vinyl and fiberglass.
 
Mystic Pools said:
Like Dennis said. No issues if there is a tear.

Vinyl and fiberglass pool are considered non-conductive. No need for reinforcement therefore no bonding required.
However, there are some vinyl builders pouring concrete walls and floors. They are reinforced. On that, I would bond the reinforcement.

2023 680.27(C) refers to Nonconductive Pool Shell. i.e vinyl and fiberglass.
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The pool I’ve been asked to do is metal shell with a sprayed in vermiculite floor with a vinyl liner… the shell is metal so obviously it will be bonded… my concern is the vermiculite sprayed in over soil that has no structural rebar… but because vinyl liner it doesn’t need any binding grid or anything ?
 
No grid needed. Vinyl and fiberglass pools considered nonconductive and need no bonding grid under the structure.

Only the metals walls, any ladder or rail escutcheons, wet niche light, anything metallic within 5' of the water, perimeter bond to 4 tails, dedicated bond from walls to equipment and water bond.
 
So b
Mystic Pools said:
No grid needed. Vinyl and fiberglass pools considered nonconductive and need no bonding grid under the structure.

Only the metals walls, any ladder or rail escutcheons, wet niche light, anything metallic within 5' of the water, perimeter bond to 4 tails, dedicated bond from walls to equipment and water bond.
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ecause of the vinyl liner you’re saying the pool that is constructed out of metal walls and vermiculite floor, the pool is considered non conductive and doesn’t need bonding?
 
wlthorpe said:
So b

ecause of the vinyl liner you’re saying the pool that is constructed out of metal walls and vermiculite floor, the pool is considered non conductive and doesn’t need bonding?
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Needs bonding of the structure, but no bonding grid needed in the soil under the structure. The vinyl liner is considered is not porous.
 
wlthorpe said:
I mean no where was that explicitly said. Regardless thanks, have a good day.
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To be fair it does not say that explicitly. They (NEC) won't single out a material type. I'm glad you persisted on the question. Pools are tricky and better safe, and correct, than sorry.
Some electricians won't touch them.
 
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