pool drain cover bonding

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cplinc

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We have a situation where we have to replace a drain cover(Virginia Graeme Baker Act) and the drain box/pipe is pvc. The new cover is metal. The owner doesn't believe a plastic cover is available and suggested we run a piece of #8 back through the drain pipe and pop it through near the motor. I this a good idea? We've never seen this done and are not sure how to proceed. This is a public pool and of course there is some pressure to get this completed and refill the pool a.s.a.p.
 
just maybe it's the right size?

just maybe it's the right size?

cplinc said:
We have a situation where we have to replace a drain cover(Virginia Graeme Baker Act) and the drain box/pipe is pvc. The new cover is metal. The owner doesn't believe a plastic cover is available and suggested we run a piece of #8 back through the drain pipe and pop it through near the motor. I this a good idea? We've never seen this done and are not sure how to proceed. This is a public pool and of course there is some pressure to get this completed and refill the pool a.s.a.p.
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680.26 Equipotential Bonding.
680.26(B)(5) Metal Fittings. All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding.
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How big is the drain cover?

If it exceeds the allowance, as stated above....and you have exhausted all ideas.......maybe you could have somebody make a non conductive cover(just a thought:smile:)
 
Caution!

Caution!

cplinc said:
The owner doesn't believe a plastic cover is available and suggested we run a piece of #8 back through the drain pipe and pop it through near the motor. I this a good idea? We've never seen this done and are not sure how to proceed. This is a public pool and of course there is some pressure to get this completed and refill the pool a.s.a.p.
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Some pressure to get it done????:roll: Isn't that always the case?

I would think twice about running a conductor to an isolated cover through the drain pipe. In the event that an accident were to take place, and that cover some how became energized, a lawyer may easily be able to prove a NEC violation.... And at that time do you think the owner will take your side.....I don't think so:rolleyes:

[QUOTE-NEC]
110.8 Wiring Methods.
Only wiring methods recognized as suitable are included in this Code. The recognized methods of wiring shall be permitted to be installed in any type of building or occupancy, except as otherwise provided in this Code. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE-NEC]
300.1 Scope.
(A) All Wiring Installations. This article covers wiring methods for all wiring installations unless modified by other articles.[/QUOTE]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not recall a drain pipe as a raceway in Chapter 3.

If the cover that was on it before was plastic........I'm sure you can dig up another one......
 
ibew441dc said:
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not recall a drain pipe as a raceway in Chapter 3.
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Pool bonding conductors are not required to be installed in a chapter 3 wiring method.

This is not to say I would run the bonding conductor inside the drain pipe or recommend that others do either.

If the cover that was on it before was plastic........I'm sure you can dig up another one.....
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That is the answer, you need to have them get a non conductive cover.
 
cplinc said:
We have a situation where we have to replace a drain cover(Virginia Graeme Baker Act) and the drain box/pipe is pvc. The new cover is metal. The owner doesn't believe a plastic cover is available and suggested we run a piece of #8 back through the drain pipe and pop it through near the motor. I this a good idea? We've never seen this done and are not sure how to proceed. This is a public pool and of course there is some pressure to get this completed and refill the pool a.s.a.p.
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http://www.recsupply.com/custom.aspx?id=9&gclid=CI-cwOnt6JkCFRk_awodiFdxRw

pick what fits......

you don't even want to consider putting a conductor of any type in a drain
pipe... aside from the liability for violating the NEC, pool deep drains normally
use plumbing 90's. more than one of them...:D.. then there's the matter of
exiting the drain system to bond the wire.... without it leaking..... :D

i've seen "creative" electrical solutions used in pool wiring... the last time, the
creative person went to prison for manslaughter. don't go there.
 
How do you bond these bad boys?

They look like they fit over the existing drain. :-?

NNAXXXX75_002.jpg


http://www.recsupply.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=NNAXXXX75
 
Wait a minute......

Wait a minute......

iwire said:
Pool bonding conductors are not required to be installed in a chapter 3 wiring method.
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Ohhhh::-???.....then I must have misunderstood this section......:rolleyes::D

680.3 Other Articles.
Except as modified by this article, wiring and equipment in or adjacent to pools and fountains shall comply with other applicable provisions of this Code, including those provisions identified in Table 680.3.
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ibew441dc said:
Ohhhh::-???.....then I must have misunderstood this section......:rolleyes::D

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I think you are trying to stretch it into something it is not.

I don't have to install a pool bonding conductor in any raceway and I can bury just an inch below the surface.

I can also sleeve it inside any tube of any sort.
 
chris kennedy said:
From one non-pool guy to another in a splittin hairs thread, not always. 680.26(B)(2)(b)(5):D
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You know that is specific part of the bonding system, it does not apply to every bonding conductor installed around a pool.


But you are right, I am not a pool guy, either installing or swimming. My pale skin scares people. :D
 
Public pool...pressured by the owner...i'd get the AHJ involved..(special permission)

Public pool...pressured by the owner...i'd get the AHJ involved..(special permission)

iwire said:
I think you are trying to stretch it into something it is not.
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maybe so......, but when your talking a public pool where the potential of something going wrong goes up (random people + public pool = potential problem)......I'd cover all my bases.

iwire said:
I don't have to install a pool bonding conductor in any raceway and I can bury just an inch below the surface.

I can also sleeve it inside any tube of any sort.
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Code section, please.:roll::smile: And keep it along the specific installation we are discussing.
 
Just one non-pool guy, splittin hairs with another....

Just one non-pool guy, splittin hairs with another....

iwire said:
You know that is specific part of the bonding system, it does not apply to every bonding conductor installed around a pool.
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I'm wondering where you would look to find language to support the proper installation of bonding conductors around a pool (or anywhere for that matter)....maybe directly in 250 and indirectly in 300???:smile:


iwire said:
But you are right, I am not a pool guy, either installing or swimming. My pale skin scares people. :D
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Its not your pale skin .......its the SPEEDO:D;)
For the record I'm not a pool guy either, my pale skin scares people too, ........or maybe its my speedo????:-?:D
 
ibew441dc said:
I'm wondering where you would look to find language to support the proper installation of bonding conductors around a pool (or anywhere for that matter)....maybe directly in 250 and indirectly in 300???:smile:
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As far as I know:

The NEC does not require that underground bonding jumpers installed at a pool be installed in a raceway.

There is nothing in the NEC that prohibits using a piece of plumbing pipe as a sleeve to protect an underground bonding jumper.

That said I still will not be recommending anyone install a bonding jumper in a pool drain line. :smile:

I doubt the CMPs have yet to see a need to say 'don't put conductors inside active water lines' :D
 
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