pool equ. Bond

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augie47

augie47

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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
In 08 680.26 when discussing the "alternate method" for bonding the perimeter surfaces, the Code states: "(5) The required conductor shall be secured within or under the perimeter surface 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to 6 in.) below the subgrade."
If the perimeter is concrete without any structural steel, the Code seems so say this #8 bond "ring" is required. In stating the conductor shall be 4" to 6" below the subgrade does this allow the conductor to be ON the gravel base below a 4" concete slab, or does it need to be buried 4" into the gravel or ????, 4" into the earth below the gravel base ??
 
I wondered about this also. What is sub grade? I assume this means 4" below grade so in your case I would say the gravel 4" below the top of the concrete.
 
I hope there are some wording impovements on tap for 2011. I didn't see it in time to submit anything, but, to me, that baby needs some improvement.
 
The article and the write up is saying if it's not in the concrete, it will be 4-6" below the subgrade. That will depend on the thickness of the finished material. If it 4" of concrete and its not in the pour, then it'll be 8-10" from finshed grade. Sounds like they don't want it in the gravel.

Rick
 
RUWired said:
The article and the write up is saying if it's not in the concrete, it will be 4-6" below the subgrade. That will depend on the thickness of the finished material. If it 4" of concrete and its not in the pour, then it'll be 8-10" from finshed grade. Sounds like they don't want it in the gravel.

Rick
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Rick suppose it was just grass around the pool then where would you install the bonding wire?
 
I would say 4-6" below the tallest blade of grass.
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I just did one below paver bricks. The AHJ considers the sub grade to be the sand bed the pavers are layed on.
 
RUWired said:
The article and the write up is saying if it's not in the concrete, it will be 4-6" below the subgrade. That will depend on the thickness of the finished material. If it 4" of concrete and its not in the pour, then it'll be 8-10" from finshed grade. Sounds like they don't want it in the gravel.

Rick
Click to expand...

If it were on the top of the gravel would that be in the concrete ???

not that the handbook is gospel, but it states the following:

The perimeter bonding grid can be comprised of structural reinforcing
metal (re-bar or welded wire mesh) that is conductive to the perimeter surface
and installed in or under the perimeter surface. Where structural reinforcing
teel is not available, a single, bare, solid 8 AWG or larger copper
conductor can be installed around the perimeter of the pool in an area
measuring between 18 in. and 24 in. from the inside pool walls. This 8
AWG bonding conductor can be installed in the paving material (i.e., in the
concrete), or it can be buried in the material (subgrade) below the
paving material. Where buried, the bonding conductor is to be not less than 4
in. and not more than 6 in. below the surface level of the subgrade material.

Fist that seem ambigious..."buried in the material belwo the paving material" or "6" below the surface of the subgrade materail" seem to contradict.


There does not seem to be any specific requirements for "structural steel" so pieces if rebar placed in a cicle around the pool would constitute "structural rebar and you would not have to bury the copper wire ??
 
chris kennedy said:
I just did one below paver bricks. The AHJ considers the sub grade to be the sand bed the pavers are layed on.
Click to expand...

so did you bury 6" below the sand bed ????

"Where buried, the bonding conductor is to be not less than 4
in. and not more than 6 in. below the surface level of the subgrade material."
 
Cavie said:
4 to 6" below the top of the sand.
Click to expand...

based on the handbook, that's probably correct. The NEC actually says "(5) The required conductor shall be secured within or under the perimeter surface 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to 6 in.) below the subgrade. "

without using the word 'surface'.
 
New 680.26 TIA Request

New 680.26 TIA Request

Has any decision been made on the potential 2008 NEC TIA for 680.26?

I lost track of this as to where it is in the process?



It was discussed here in December 2008:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?p=973249#post973249


(Trivia... I have the entire TIA with the substantiation documentation from Mr. Robinson. It is an excellent read, and is well documented, but the PDF is too large to upload at 442kb...)

mweaver
 
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If the hot tub is on a wood deck, then i would say that the "deck" is not on the same grade as the earth and would not be required. but you could say the support columns are on the same grade as the earth, and that would start another round of discussions.

Rick
 
To me, 4-6" below the subgrade is 4-6" below the bottom of the gravel. Subgrade means gravel in this case. IMO, the CMP wants the ring in contact with the earth, and if it was in gravel, that would not be a good contact.
 
wirenut1980 said:
To me, 4-6" below the subgrade is 4-6" below the bottom of the gravel. Subgrade means gravel in this case. IMO, the CMP wants the ring in contact with the earth, and if it was in gravel, that would not be a good contact.
Click to expand...

In Florida you have 2 choices. Concrete deck or Paver deck. Concrete on dirt, Pavers on sand. Concrete deck, the bonding ring is in the concrete attached in 4 plases to the steel. In Paver deck the bonding ring is just a little in the dirt to hold it in place untill the sand shows up. We (Lee County)did not require it with a wood deck. Wood is non conductive. Or so I was told.
 
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