dana1028
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
Does an Intermatic time clock (with the manual shutoff lever) satisfy the requirement for 680.12?
Pool Equipment Disconnect
- Thread starter dana1028
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
I infer from your description that the manual shutoff lever will turn off the equipment, regardless of the state of the clock. So if it disconnects all ungrounded conductors and is within sight of the equipment, I don?t see why not.
I infer from your description that the manual shutoff lever will turn off the equipment, regardless of the state of the clock. So if it disconnects all ungrounded conductors and is within sight of the equipment, I don?t see why not.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
I would say no. The TC is an auto controller. If you shut off the manual lever, it will turn itself back on automatically.
Example: If the clock is set to go on at 9AM and someone decides to workon it at 8:30AM, then he is in danger of having the clock start the motor.
This disconnect is for people other than electricians as well. Plumbers could be working on the pipes and not want the pump to come on.
I would say no. The TC is an auto controller. If you shut off the manual lever, it will turn itself back on automatically.
Example: If the clock is set to go on at 9AM and someone decides to workon it at 8:30AM, then he is in danger of having the clock start the motor.
This disconnect is for people other than electricians as well. Plumbers could be working on the pipes and not want the pump to come on.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
This is the key issue. How does the device work? Will it, in fact, turn itself back on when the timer times out, or will the manual lever disable the timer? To satisfy 680.12, the disconnect device must de-energize the circuit forever, or until a person intentionally turns it back on, whichever comes first. If there is a timed, automatic re-start, then sandsnow would be right.
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
Typically, these timers have a few ways to stop them. You can pull the clock wheel out (used for changing what time it is) and it won't rotate or click the on/off paddles. Also, you can remove the on "paddles" and it will never turn things on. But just flipping the manual on/off level is not sufficient.
Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with a clock timer as a disconnect, as most people don't know how to work them to fully disable them. If the breaker feeding it isn't within sight, consider putting in a double pole switch prior to the clock timer as a disconnect.
Typically, these timers have a few ways to stop them. You can pull the clock wheel out (used for changing what time it is) and it won't rotate or click the on/off paddles. Also, you can remove the on "paddles" and it will never turn things on. But just flipping the manual on/off level is not sufficient.
Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with a clock timer as a disconnect, as most people don't know how to work them to fully disable them. If the breaker feeding it isn't within sight, consider putting in a double pole switch prior to the clock timer as a disconnect.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
Leave it and use a breaker lock out.With that the tech knows it`s not energized ,so the time clock would not be able to turn itself on.So being a means of disconnect is solved ,time clocks indicate as required on/off.As long as they can be worked on without regards to working clearance for energized equiptment.Since locked out,not energized
It is code compliant if the tech decides not to use the lock out that`s in his toolbag.1 thing I would do is have a label affixed that says lock out devise etc.etc.
Leave it and use a breaker lock out.With that the tech knows it`s not energized ,so the time clock would not be able to turn itself on.So being a means of disconnect is solved ,time clocks indicate as required on/off.As long as they can be worked on without regards to working clearance for energized equiptment.Since locked out,not energized
It is code compliant if the tech decides not to use the lock out that`s in his toolbag.1 thing I would do is have a label affixed that says lock out devise etc.etc.dana1028
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
thank you for your responses - I this afternoon I got my hands on a copy of EC&M's "Understanding NEC Rules on Swimming Pools, Spas & Hot Tubs", 4th edition (2002 NEC). Under their Sec. 680.12 - Maint. Disconnecting Means - they state the following:
"...The disconnecting means must open all circuit conductors to the equipment so that it will be totally de-energized when the disconnecting means is in the "OFF" position. If the equipment is a motor, then the disconnecting means must also be rated in horsepower, or be a circuit breaker."
hmmm - does anyone know where this language comes from? (in the code).
thank you for your responses - I this afternoon I got my hands on a copy of EC&M's "Understanding NEC Rules on Swimming Pools, Spas & Hot Tubs", 4th edition (2002 NEC). Under their Sec. 680.12 - Maint. Disconnecting Means - they state the following:
"...The disconnecting means must open all circuit conductors to the equipment so that it will be totally de-energized when the disconnecting means is in the "OFF" position. If the equipment is a motor, then the disconnecting means must also be rated in horsepower, or be a circuit breaker."
hmmm - does anyone know where this language comes from? (in the code).
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
There is nothing about "all circuit conductors" which would lead you to believe a grounded conductor (if present)would need to be disconnected. Also the discn. means as per 430 does not need to be HP rated as long as it is 115% of FLC in Table 430-148 Also see exception to 430-110. Although 430-102(b) EXC permits the discn. means to be remote and lockable, 680-12 which is specific to pools would further modify the discon. means. Just as 440-14 is more restrictive for discn. means for A/C equip.
What you quoted is not code language. It is EC&M's explanation. Refer to 680-12 in the code. The discn. must be ....located within sight of all pool, spa, and hot tub equipment...(partial NEC quote)
There is nothing about "all circuit conductors" which would lead you to believe a grounded conductor (if present)would need to be disconnected. Also the discn. means as per 430 does not need to be HP rated as long as it is 115% of FLC in Table 430-148 Also see exception to 430-110. Although 430-102(b) EXC permits the discn. means to be remote and lockable, 680-12 which is specific to pools would further modify the discon. means. Just as 440-14 is more restrictive for discn. means for A/C equip.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Pool Equipment Disconnect
I apologize for the 1999 code sections. Were not on the 2002 yet.
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