Pool heater gfci question

ritelec

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Hi.

I’ll be wiring a heater for a pool.

The circuit will be a couple hundred feet underground so I’m thinking of installing a regular breaker inside at the panel and install a gfci at the pool heater instead of at the panel to help prevent tripping.


Does the neutral on the gfci have to be connected to anything or can it just be capped off and float ?

Thank you
 
AFIK, the LINE side of all GFCI breakers needs the neutral (either pigtail or buss). Unless you have a 120v load, there is no connection needed to the LOAD side neutral lug.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If this is electric heat for a pool then no GFCI is required. However gas fired heaters do require gfci
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Thank you
Yes, an electric pool heater.
What about the code requiring outdoor outlets to be GFCI protected? 210.8 (F)

I was reading around this forum a bit ago and it looked up in the air???

Also, the unit will be larger but the pool man sent me this and asked about circuit size.

Are these heaters treated like air conditioners??
it says min circ ampacity 37.8
"recommended" breaker size 40a
max fuse 60 amp

Shouldn't it be a 50 amp circuit and call it a day?


Would this be as per manufacturer or against code?

As you read, if you decided not to do the "recommended" 40 breaker or the 60 fuse, would you use a breaker only or a fuse if you ran the 50 amp circuit?heater jpg.png
 
As for the circuit sizing on the name plate. My bust, I had a chance to look at it and saw under the yellow marking he made in the picture total the load is 30.7 amps

40 amp makes sense.


Greentagger, What is required per the 2020 NEC? GFCI on heater?

As Dennis stated, I don't see GFCI required on the heater in 680 BUT it looks like it's required by 210.8(F)

As mentioned I was looking around a while back and saw this discussion and it looked like there were different opinions on this.

?

Thank you
 
ptonsparky said:
Generally The electronics of the GFCI breaker need the neutral so it must be connected. QO may be an exception.
Click to expand...
QO 60 amp 2 pole has no load side neutral but still needs line side neutral to power the electronics. Omit the neutral (on any of them) and the breaker still closes and operates as a thermal magnetic breaker when handle is "on" but has no GFCI feature.
 
With MCA of 37.8 and recommended circuit breaker of 40 amps, it about has to have a variable speed compressor or it likely wouldn't hold during starting.

Unless this unit were designed to work with a GFCI, most this kind of equipment using a VFD does not like to play with GFCI's. High frequency switching in the drive is what doesn't work with GFCI's. Many trip the GFCI almost immediately when trying to start the motor.
 
Greentagger said:
It is required per the 2020 NEC.
Click to expand...
Can you direct me to what section that is in? Here is what I found in the 2020

680.10 Electric Pool Water Heaters.
All electric pool water heaters shall have the heating elements subdivided into loads not exceeding 48 amperes and protected at not over 60 amperes. The ampacity of the branch-circuit conductors and the rating or setting of overcurrent protective devices shall not be less than 125 percent of the total nameplate-rated load.
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Here is the 2023

680.10 Electric Pool Water Heaters Incorporating Resistive Heating Elements and Electrically Powered Swimming Pool Heat Pumps and Chillers.

(A) Electric Pool Water Heaters.

All electric pool water heaters incorporating resistive heating elements shall have the heating elements subdivided into loads not exceeding 48 amperes and protected at not over 60 amperes. The ampacity of the branch-circuit conductors and the rating or setting of overcurrent protective devices shall be 125 percent of the total nameplate-rated load or greater.


(B) Electrically Powered Swimming Pool Heat Pumps and Chillers.
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Electrically powered swimming pool heat pumps and chillers using the circulating water system and providing heating, cooling, or both, shall be listed and rated for their intended use. The ampacity of the branch-circuit conductors and the rating or setting of overcurrent protective devices shall be sized to comply with the nameplate.
Click to expand...
 
ritelec said:
Thank you
Yes, an electric pool heater.
What about the code requiring outdoor outlets to be GFCI protected? 210.8 (F)

I was reading around this forum a bit ago and it looked up in the air???

Also, the unit will be larger but the pool man sent me this and asked about circuit size.

Are these heaters treated like air conditioners??
it says min circ ampacity 37.8
"recommended" breaker size 40a
max fuse 60 amp

Shouldn't it be a 50 amp circuit and call it a day?


Would this be as per manufacturer or against code?

As you read, if you decided not to do the "recommended" 40 breaker or the 60 fuse, would you use a breaker only or a fuse if you ran the 50 amp circuit?
Click to expand...


In some cases the heater for the pool water is basically a heat pump. So yeah it would be considered like an air conditioner

Section 422.11(E) says it all. Heat is 37.8 amps times 150% is 56 amps-- round up to a 60 amp breaker. It doesn't mean you have to but that is the largest ocpd you can go.

1710111427028.png
 
I suppose 210.8 does signal gfci for the heater but it does have an exception for heat pumps until 2026. Not sure whether that would apply to the heater.

I keep forgetting about 210.8...... they really changed things there and NC has not accepted it yet. I believe next Jan we will go to the 2023 and skip the 2020
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I suppose 210.8 does signal gfci for the heater but it does have an exception for heat pumps until 2026. Not sure whether that would apply to the heater.

I keep forgetting about 210.8...... they really changed things there and NC has not accepted it yet. I believe next Jan we will go to the 2023 and skip the 2020
Click to expand...
While functionally identical, I don't think the pool heat pump is listed as "HVAC equipment" and the exception only applies to listed "HVAC equipment".
 
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