Pool light junction box question

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nickelec

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Hey all so i posted a couple of times on here about a pool i just completed and all the responses helped thanks for that but i have one last question. While finshisng up my bonding grid i noticed a copper bonding lug protruding from the pool light j box. The light is a low voltage 12v led hayward light. I didnt remember to look if the bonding lug was attached to the ground bar inside the j box . With that being said here are my questions

If the bonding lug is in fact connected to the grounding bar inside the j box ( wich i think it was) then i obviously would not terminal my my solid #8 from my bonding grid to that lug or would i .
From my understanding grounding and my bonding grid should remain separate.

Correct me if im wrong. Is this type of box used for wet niche applications?

Basically my question is should i or shouldn't i connect my bond to it
If not whats the purpose of it

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Over the course of a couple of hundred pools, I've never used that lug for anything. But, I stopped doing pools in 2008. Things may have changed. One inspector said it was a backup, in case the bond wire to the rebar became unuseable.

I started removing them for the times I needed to bond windows, doors, downspouts, etc.

BTW, grounding and the bonding grid are hopelessly intertwined. Don't give a thought about trying to keep them seperate. Just go to any piece of equipment before it's wired (pump, heater, chlorinator ...). Check for continuity between the bond lug and the ground screw. They're connected. The physical seperation between the two creates the illusion that they're electrically seperate.
 
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nickelec said:
Hey all so i posted a couple of times on here about a pool i just completed and all the responses helped thanks for that but i have one last question. While finshisng up my bonding grid i noticed a copper bonding lug protruding from the pool light j box. The light is a low voltage 12v led hayward light. I didnt remember to look if the bonding lug was attached to the ground bar inside the j box . With that being said here are my questions

If the bonding lug is in fact connected to the grounding bar inside the j box ( wich i think it was) then i obviously would not terminal my my solid #8 from my bonding grid to that lug or would i .
From my understanding grounding and my bonding grid should remain separate.

Correct me if im wrong. Is this type of box used for wet niche applications?

Basically my question is should i or shouldn't i connect my bond to it
If not whats the purpose of it

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Click to expand...

OK I have some questions about what exactly you are using.

!2v light is traditional fixture set in niche?

If so, that is a wet niche set up.

PVC niche or stainless?

There will be a bond lug on the inside of the niche and also on the outside. The outside lug, if a concrete pool, must be connected to your bond grid on the rebar prior to the shot.
The inside lug gets #8 wire connected to it, sent through the conduit to the bond lug on the deck box. Potting compound is required on the inside lug to prevent corrosion to the wire.
If you have this wet niche you will notice the set screw hole for the light fixture is connected the inside bond lug.

There are some variations of deck boxes. We use Intermatic's PJB series boxes-all plastic. They have a ground bar inside and an external bond lug. Other companies have a threaded brass base and a plastic top. Been a while but I believe same ground bar, bond lug set up.
These boxes are applicable for wet niche set-ups.

We don't use the bond lug on the PJB's. Or the ground bar. Our lights are 12V LED that are nicheless. No bonding or grounding required. They utilize a 1.5" PVC pipe through the wall with a female fitting on the inside of the pool. The entire fixture threads into this fitting becoming flush with the pool wall.
Another manufacturer uses 2" PVC with a proprietary trim ring.

I assuming your conduit is PVC? For your light?
 
nickelec said:
If im not mistaken its a colorlogic Heyward

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If this is the case then you would do nothing at the niche, if it is one of these models, Hayward Universal ColorLogic Niche (LFGUY1000 or LGGUY1000). It is designed to not require any connection to the EBG due to it being all 100% PVC. http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/UCL-Series-Underwater-Large-Lighting-Niche.pdf

Installation Manual for https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/ma...candCrystaLogic-InstallationandOperations.pdf

In your case based on the info provided, if everything is PVC then I would do nothing with the screw on the JB that is external. (See Below if it applies to YOU)

Forgot to add - That bonding external screw is for when the JB is within 5' of the pool area, which is entirely the case since 680.24(A)(2)(b) permits it to be no less than 4'.
 
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FYI- Here is some information from one of the leading manufacturers of such junction boxes. "An optional external bonding lug is provided. Connect toEquipotential Bonding Grid, if your installation requires it."

So you have to determine if YOUR installation requires it....and if it is within 5' of the pool as described in 680.26(3) through (7).

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/i...and_spa/accessories/pjb_series/pjb_series.pdf

Thought the link may be helpful to you.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
FYI- Here is some information from one of the leading manufacturers of such junction boxes. "An optional external bonding lug is provided. Connect toEquipotential Bonding Grid, if your installation requires it."

So you have to determine if YOUR installation requires it....and if it is within 5' of the pool as described in 680.26(3) through (7).

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/i...and_spa/accessories/pjb_series/pjb_series.pdf

Thought the link may be helpful to you.
Click to expand...

If Intermatic does in fact say connect to the Equipotenetial Bond Grid, isn't that incorrect? The EQBG is to be set 18'-24" from the water. The deck box cannot be set that close to the pool's edge.
Am I wrong on this statement?
 
MasterTheNEC said:
... That bonding external screw is for when the JB is within 5' of the pool area, ...
Click to expand...
And, if the j-box is metal. Thermocraft boxes and the Intermatic ones linked to in post #9 are plastic. There is no need to bond these just because they are within five feet of the water's edge.

Metal boxes, that have a #8 bond wire running to a niche, and that niche is bonded to rebar, are already bonded. No additional bond is required on the j-box outside lug.

So, run a bond to that lug only if these three conditions are met:
1. The box is within 5' of the water's edge.
2. It is a metal box.
3. That metal box is not already bonded through the niche.

Or, if something is not bonded, you can use that lug to extend the grid to it.
 
Simply quoting the manufacturer of the box. They provide it where applicable. As their literature states.

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They say where needed. It is totally dependant on your install and ironically the local AHJ'S call. My view is you do nothing with it in your case.

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