Pool motor

[jkrauss]

l have a permanent pool how far is the pool pump required to be away from the edge of the pool ? Under 2014 code ,

 

[Fred B]

If you're asking what is the closest it can be the following info might give guidance.
Don't have the 14 with me but got the 17. 680.22(A)(2) doesn't indicate any substantive changes, in that section it indicates the receptacle for the pump motor shall be at least 6ft from inside wall of pool. Also 680.21(A)(3) limits the cord length to 3ft.

 

[hbiss]

680.22(2) Circulation and Sanitation System, Location.
Receptacles that provide power for water-pump motors or for
other loads directly related to the circulation and sanitation
system shall be located at least 3.0 m (l0ft) from the inside
walls of the pool, or not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from the
inside walls of the pool if they meet all of the following
conditions:
(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Are of the grounding type
(3) Have GFCI protection

The 2017 Code removes the reference to 10ft and only requires 6ft because a grounding receptacle with GFCI protection is required.

That said I usually like to see 15ft between pool and equipment because of splashing, etc.

-Hal

 

[jkrauss]

I se receptacles requirements in the code put can the pump be closer the 6’to the pool

 

[jkrauss]

I se receptacles requirements in the code but can the pump it self be closer then 6’ from the pool ?

 

[Buck Parrish]

Will their be any type of barrier between it and the pool?

 

[jkrauss]

No, The home owner put the pump between the receptacle serving the pump & the pool , The pool is a above ground permanent pool ,

 

[Fred B]

I se receptacles requirements in the code put can the pump be closer the 6’to the pool

Also 680.21(A)(3) limits the cord length to 3ft.

@hbiss made reference to presumably the older code that had 2 separated conditions of installation.
Condition 1 requirements for receptacle at least 10 ft away and if applying 680.21 the closest motor could be is likely just over 7ft without stretching the cord.
Condition 2 if the situations that followed all apply then presumably you could have the pump just over 3ft as again limitation of cord to 3ft and receptacle placement of at least 6ft.

 

[jkrauss]

In condition 2 the pump could be installed three foot from the pool . I believe the intention of the code would be to place the pump past the 6’ min distance .

---

 

[jkrauss]

The pump is now installed approximately 4’ from the pool.

 

[jkrauss]

680.22(2) Circulation and Sanitation System, Location.
Receptacles that provide power for water-pump motors or for
other loads directly related to the circulation and sanitation
system shall be located at least 3.0 m (l0ft) from the inside
walls of the pool, or not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from the
inside walls of the pool if they meet all of the following
conditions:
(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Are of the grounding type
(3) Have GFCI protection

The 2017 Code removes the reference to 10ft and only requires 6ft because a grounding receptacle with GFCI protection is required.

That said I usually like to see 15ft between pool and equipment because of splashing, etc.

-Hal

I agree, is there any code violation because of the cord length of 3’ which would put the pump as close as 3 ft from the pool .

 

[jkrauss]

If you're asking what is the closest it can be the following info might give guidance.
Don't have the 14 with me but got the 17. 680.22(A)(2) doesn't indicate any substantive changes, in that section it indicates the receptacle for the pump motor shall be at least 6ft from inside wall of pool. Also 680.21(A)(3) limits the cord length to 3ft.

If you're asking what is the closest it can be the following info might give guidance.
Don't have the 14 with me but got the 17. 680.22(A)(2) doesn't indicate any substantive changes, in that section it indicates the receptacle for the pump motor shall be at least 6ft from inside wall of pool. Also 680.21(A)(3) limits the cord length to 3ft.

The pump could be installed as close as 3’ from the pool

 

[hbiss]

hbiss made reference to presumably the older code that had 2 separated conditions of installation.

That was from the 2014 code that the OP said he is working under, not that it matters.

I agree, is there any code violation because of the cord length of 3’ which would put the pump as close as 3 ft from the pool .

While the NEC is silent as far as the actual equipment placement, I don't think you can assume that because the cord length on the pump motor is limited to three feet you can locate the receptacle the minimum distance of 6 feet from the pool then think you can stretch the cord out it's full length in the other direction towards the pool and put the pump there. I don't think that's the intent and why the equipment location isn't specified. The intent is 6 feet, which in my opinion isn't enough!


Much depends on the construction of the motor (TEFC) and whether electrical equipment will be considered safe at what distance from the pool. Like I said, I like to maintain 15 feet because of splashing. Also, at only 4 feet from the pool, what's to keep kids from climbing on it?

Is this going to be inspected? See what the AHJ has to say.

-Hal

 

[Fred B]

That was from the 2014 code that the OP said he is working under, not that it matters.



While the NEC is silent as far as the actual equipment placement, I don't think you can assume that because the cord length on the pump motor is limited to three feet you can locate the receptacle the minimum distance of 6 feet from the pool then think you can stretch the cord out it's full length in the other direction towards the pool and put the pump there. I don't think that's the intent and why the equipment location isn't specified. The intent is 6 feet, which in my opinion isn't enough!


Much depends on the construction of the motor (TEFC) and whether electrical equipment will be considered safe at what distance from the pool. Like I said, I like to maintain 15 feet because of splashing. Also, at only 4 feet from the pool, what's to keep kids from climbing on it?

Is this going to be inspected? See what the AHJ has to say.

-Hal

It's been pointed out on other threads that the inspector is limited to what the code says not what you think it should say. If the code is silent on it then I can see someone trying to push the limits of any silence. So receptacle is 6ft, cord is 3ft the contractor will place the pump convenient for plumbing and not look at safety concerns you validly make. Most inground I see install well away from pool (usually for aesthetics), but above ground I see them put it as close as possible to the pool, not saying it right (or the safest) just what is done.
I would iterate the safety concerns and posible solutions but if code is silent how is it enforced. Ask the AHJ? Seen many comments that have shown displeasure with AHJ enforcement of something that is not stated in the code.

 

[hbiss]

Look, I think anybody with a working brain would understand that by requiring the receptacle to be at least 6 feet from the pool that the pump should be located with the receptacle. The Code doesn't always spell things out as it figures a professional would use common sense to understand what is said.

If you can't have a receptacle at less than 6 feet what makes you think you can have other electrical devices and wiring connected to it closer?

It's as simple as that. Geeze.

-Hal

 

[Fred B]

Look, I think anybody with a working brain would understand that by requiring the receptacle to be at least 6 feet from the pool that the pump should be located with the receptacle. The Code doesn't always spell things out as it figures a professional would use common sense to understand what is said.

If you can't have a receptacle at less than 6 feet what makes you think you can have other electrical devices and wiring connected to it closer?

It's as simple as that. Geeze.

-Hal

It should be that simple. But where does it say that in writing? Common sense doesn't always prevail. That I'm sure you seen many times you get on a job and comment at least to yourself with "What were they thinking".

 

[retirede]

Look, I think anybody with a working brain would understand that by requiring the receptacle to be at least 6 feet from the pool that the pump should be located with the receptacle. The Code doesn't always spell things out as it figures a professional would use common sense to understand what is said.

If you can't have a receptacle at less than 6 feet what makes you think you can have other electrical devices and wiring connected to it closer?

It's as simple as that. Geeze.

-Hal

I always thought that the 6’ receptacle rule was because most devices have 6’ cords, thus a plugged in device could not enter the pool while plugged in.

Saying that electrical devices should be kept 6’ away just because that’s where the receptacle location is mandated is quite a stretch.

 

[hbiss]

I always thought that the 6’ receptacle rule was because most devices have 6’ cords, thus a plugged in device could not enter the pool while plugged in.

Regular receptacles around the pool, yes. They are used at the discretion of the pool users though and there are such things as long cords and extension cords which are beyond the Code's control.

I'm looking at this from the standpoint of pool users coming in contact with or playing with energized equipment while wet and standing on wet soil or concrete. Also the equipment getting constantly soaked from water splashing out of the pool. GFCIs are there to protect against accidents, NOT guarantee protection from intentional abuse. Sorry, I just don't believe that the intent is for the pump motor to be three feet from the receptacle closer to the pool just because it has a 3 foot cord (which would stretch it out like a guitar string).

-Hal